2/4 NL Small Pot Hand

[SlyAK]

Hi all,

I have been venturing more and more into the 2/4 400 buyin online games. Just wanted to see your thoughts on this very basic hand, making sure my play is good since these type of hands come up a lot.

I have $425 on the button, Villain is in SB with about $550. I have been here a couple rotations and have raised PF twice, both times taking down the blinds + some limpers money. Read on the villain is that she (name is female) is a bit on the loose side, but not a maniac.

I open-raise to $16 from the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB Villain calls, BB folds. Pot = $36.

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain checks, I bet $25, villain thinks and calls. Pot = $86.

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Villain leads out for $30, and I smooth-call. My thoughts are that my hand is alright, but I dont want to build a big pot here with a top pair not great kicker hand. Pot= $146.

River: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Villain thinks for a long time and bets out $30. I quickly call.

Thoughts? I am particularly interested on whether or not I should raise the turn since the board is so draw heavy?

Sly

[snowbank]

I thought it was kind of strange that they checked the flop and then bet the turn when the 8 came out. I would probably have raised the turn. If I think I am ahead, and think they may be drawing, I'm raising.

[SlyAK]

I wasnt sure that she was drawing, otherwise I agree that I should raise. I was somewhat afraid of a hand like A8, A3, here, also a set of 3's or even 8's are possibilities. The problem is that if I raise to $100 or $120, this player would probably still call with a draw or a better hand than mine, and I still wouldnt know if my hand was good. Then with the bigger pot I certainly wouldnt be happy about calling a 1/2 pot or bigger bet on the river with TP crap kicker to see if the villain is bluffing or not.

Sly

[mks]

Sly,

If you have good reason to think the player is drawing I am ok with raising the turn to say 80 and checking the river behind since you are in position. But I'm not sure a draw is all that likely (have you seen her play a draw that way before?). If you go this route, obviously if raised back fold, and also fold if she bets into on the river after you raise the turn. I don't play these 2-4 games but I'm guessing you are behind a huge percentage of the time here on the turn and particularly on the river. On the end you're getting 6-1 so it's not that big of a deal either way really. But I would expect to lose very often.

[SlyAK]

I also figured I would be behind often on the river, but no way I am folding for $30 more. I was trying to figure out why the villain waited so long to bet, (time clock was below 5 sec.), but I figured I shouldn't put too much emphasis on that since she could be multi-tabling, surfing the web, etc. My plan was obviously to check behind on the river if she checked it to me.

I don't see raising to $80 as quite enough on the turn, I thought $100 would be the least amount for any 'decent sized raise', and since I didnt want to build a big pot I elected for my line. These are the toughest situations for me personally, top pair hands when I dont know if an opponent is drawing or has a made hand.

Sly

[whitelime]

I would min-raise for two reasons.

1) You win more money from a weaker hand. A draw definitely calls a min-raise here and I think a weaker ace might as well.

2) You lose less money to a stronger hand. A re-raise makes this an easy fold. He is also less likely to bluff a busted flush and more likely to check a made flush on the river if you raise the turn.

[SlyAK]

I hate min-raises.... but I see that a small turn raise increases the odds of getting it checked to me on the river, which is good. I assume that with your turn line you would fold to any reasonable river bet?

Sly

[whitelime]

After being raised on the turn, I don't think many players would bluff the river, so it's an easy fold if he leads out say $100, but if he leads $30, you are getting 6:1 and have to call.

[creedofhubris]

If I'm villain and I am on a clubs draw, and I don't respect your abilities, I might fire a blocking bet on the turn; $30 seems about right. If I'm lucky and you are aceless, you might even fold! If not, it should get me a cheap look at the river.

That done, I'm betting WAY more than $30 on the river if I get there.

$30 on the river is a pathetic bet. It could mean one of two things: "I am a weak player who has a weak hand and so I am betting weakly;" or, "I have the nuts! Please please please please raise me raise me raise me just don't folllldddddddddddd".

I think you're going to get shown Ax more often than you'll be shown a flush though. Problem is that you can't necessarily beat Ax.

I think I call and expect to lose.

I would play AT the way you did, check/call. If I had AJ, I would raise the turn. (Loose players love to call raises with AT; they think it's a big ace.)

[doubleas]

Her lead on the turn is wildy suspicious to me. I think she is block-betting or is hoping for you to raise. If you're willing to call $40-$50 on the river, I'd raise to $80-$100 on the turn and fold to a reraise/check-through on the river. You make her pay for a draw and potentially fold AJ/AT.