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#21
02-09-2004, 04:21 AM
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Re: AK out of position v. best player 10-10-20NL
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Most tough players, especially live, aren't folding here very often though for another 150-200. [/ QUOTE ] I have enough money that I can't really imagine any hand he'd fold here for 150 more. 
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#22
02-09-2004, 04:28 AM
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Re: AK out of position v. best player 10-10-20NL
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But, I'll ask you this: How badly do the bad players play? [/ QUOTE ] Pretty badly. Enough to just wait for them to play if I choose to do so. [ QUOTE ] And, is this "tough pro," involving himself in practically every hand, or is he picking his spots with generally strong cards? [/ QUOTE ] He's picking his spots w/ either good cards or coming into pots that will be multi-way. He has something playable this hand. [ QUOTE ] I'd likely re-raise him about 350, and expect him to fold. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds like a good plan and result to me. [ QUOTE ] But there are some guys (like Hellmuth for example) who are apt to call that raise with just about anything [/ QUOTE ] If I have a bigger stack, definitely. But I think the money is short enough here that he's unlikely to call. I was pretty sure he would either push or fold to a raise like that.
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#24
02-09-2004, 04:36 AM
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Re: AK out of position v. best player 10-10-20NL
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If the tough player was very likely to fold to a reraise then maybe raising has value. Most tough players, especially live, aren't folding here very often though for another 150-200. They're calling with the hope of breaking you or pushing you off a better hand. Which is why I'd much rather be in the position of missing the flop and check folding after calling preflop than of missing the flop and having to decide whether to bet out or not after reraising preflop. Sure, sometimes you'll get a fold. But sometimes you'll bet 400 into a T72r flop and get called. At that point, you're probably done with the hand and have pissed away $700 to your toughest opponent out of position with Ace high when you could have probably sat on your stack and waited to trap one of the idiots at the table with a big hand. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I can see your point about getting away cheaply after the flop and waiting to take money from someone a little softer. Still, does that really make raising the worst play here or just the one that requires the most post-flop skill (assuming both players are rougly equal in ability)? SpaceAce
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#25
02-09-2004, 04:38 AM
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Re: AK out of position v. best player 10-10-20NL
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[ QUOTE ] If you can't play AK against this guy, it seems that you've pretty much decided to roll over and play dead in any pot he opens. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not super-excited about AKo out of position v. anyone in this game. [/ QUOTE ] That puts a whole new light on this guy being the toughest at the table. SpaceAce
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#26
02-09-2004, 04:41 AM
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Results
Thanks for all the good responses.
I gave serious consideration to just folding and being done w/ it. Then I decided to play. I raised to 400 straight. I expected him to either fold or go all-in. With only about 1650 left, I don't think he is likely to call w/ hands just looking to bust me. He asked me how much I had left and I told him. He thought about it for quite a while and we had a nice conversation. He was considering pushing and I was considering calling. Then he folded. Looking at this hand in isolation, I think it was fine. However, in retrospect, given the exceptional weakness of this table, I think folding might have been the better move.
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#27
02-09-2004, 04:43 AM
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Re: AK out of position v. best player 10-10-20NL
Thats true. With 200 in the pot, if he leads at it for 200 more, and you checkraise to say 500, if he comes over the top you would need to dump your hand. Perhaps just check calling the flop would be better, and then if he checks behind on the turn, you can make a small bet on the river.
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#28
02-09-2004, 04:44 AM
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Re: AK out of position v. best player 10-10-20NL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you can't play AK against this guy, it seems that you've pretty much decided to roll over and play dead in any pot he opens. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not super-excited about AKo out of position v. anyone in this game. [/ QUOTE ] That puts a whole new light on this guy being the toughest at the table. [/ QUOTE ] Let me rephrase/clarify that. This guy was the only really tough player in the game at this point. But there were lots of aggressive players in the game as well as deep-stacked players who can play w/ just about any two. I'm not super-excited about playing AKo out of position against anyone in a no-limit game, but I'm more than happy to tangle w/ anyone else in this game.
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#29
02-09-2004, 04:53 AM
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Re: AK out of position v. best player 10-10-20NL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you can't play AK against this guy, it seems that you've pretty much decided to roll over and play dead in any pot he opens. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not super-excited about AKo out of position v. anyone in this game. [/ QUOTE ] That puts a whole new light on this guy being the toughest at the table. [/ QUOTE ] Let me rephrase/clarify that. This guy was the only really tough player in the game at this point. But there were lots of aggressive players in the game as well as deep-stacked players who can play w/ just about any two. I'm not super-excited about playing AKo out of position against anyone in a no-limit game, but I'm more than happy to tangle w/ anyone else in this game. [/ QUOTE ] Gotcha. I thought we might have had a misunderstanding when I saw you refer to the game's incredible weakness in another post. I'm not suggesting that AKo is invincible but I can't imagine being too sad about peeking at my cards in the small blind and seeing it there. I find it interesting that you actually did what I thought you should have although most people seem to think it was not the way to go. SpaceAce
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#30
02-09-2004, 04:54 AM
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Re: Results
Yikes. You have big nuts. I dont think it's worth risking 400 to try to pick up the 80. If he raises you back for all your money, I assume you would have to strongy consider dumping your hand. Also, if he just smooth calls your raise, what are you going to do if the flop comes 10 2 2? I think you have to be prepared to put a whole lot of chips in pretty much regardless of what the flop is, and that's not always fun. Anyway, I respect you for being aggresive with the hand, but I'm not sure I would have wanted to put myself in that situation by reraising preflop, especially without position.
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