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  #1  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:25 PM
dgoldsmith dgoldsmith is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 57
Default JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

Edit: First two hands were on first orbit at table so no reads yet on the players. Third had was much later -- villian was 38/9.5/2.5 on 40 hands or so.

Hand 1:

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(8 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB.


Hand 2:

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(8 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB.


Hand 3:

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB.
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

Hand 1 - some reads on villian perhaps, slowdown on the turn raise
Hand 2 - what kind of player is UTG, could he be c/r you with JJ-KK on the turn? Is he raising these hands preflop?
Hand 3 - What is your read on UTG, What hands are you putting UTG on? Looks like a easy fold especially by the river

Not to sound like an [censored], but I think you need to start watching what kind of hands your opponents are showing down. Reads will save you a lot of bets on hands like the ones you posted.

*edit hand 2 - I have no clue what I was looking at above, but on hand 2, I would check behind on that turn and call a river bet from villian
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:49 PM
JDErickson JDErickson is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 957
Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

#1 - call down or fold after the turn raise depending on your read.

#2 - fold the turn

#3 - OK
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:54 PM
David04 David04 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 175
Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

Grunching:
Hand 1: Just call down after the turn raise.

Hand 2: Turn play is fine, because you are getting ~10-1 with a good chance of MP3 calling behidn you. Jacks are almost certainly outs, and a K could give you a winner. I think it's worth a call here. I think I would fold the river here. HU, it might be a call, but with MP3 behind you, I don't like the river play.

Hand 3: Looks good. Pot is way too big to fold on the flop, with just one overcard. Turn gives you a flush draw, so you have to see the river. River card isn't too great, better players might be able to find a fold here, but I would probably want to go to showdown getting 14-1.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:57 PM
David04 David04 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 175
Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

[ QUOTE ]
#2 - fold the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really fold the turn here, getting nearly 10-1, with a strong chance that MP3 will call behind you? I don't think I could fold here, given the big pot and the fact that I have some outs if I am behind.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:05 PM
Fantam Fantam is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: England
Posts: 4
Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

Hand 1:

You dont need to cap preflop. Just call, because you are hoping that your opponent has overcards such as AK, but he might have a higher pocket pair.

Following from the above, you should not have 3-bet the turn. You are just giving away bets to your opponent if he has a higher pair.

Hand 2:

Fold on the river. You had a bad flop and were probably behind when your opponent raised you on the turn. Nonetheless you had some outs to improve to a straight or full house by the river.

Anyway, you didnt improve and you were definitely beat on the river, so fold.

Hand 3:

You dont need to cap with so many players in the hand preflop. Just call when you are reraised with JJ. Your hand is vulnerable to A, K or Q overcards.

The K on the flop was bad for your hand. Your opponent who reraised preflop probably had AA, KK or AK. You are almost definitely beat.

Calling the flop bet to see if you improve was ok, but you should probably have bailed out and folded on the turn. It was just too likely that you were behind here and drawing very slim.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

Hand #1

You can fold the river in hand #1 - you are never good here.
The one hand you could have possibly beat just filled up.

I just call the turn raise.

Hand #2.
I check the turn, every time.

Hand #3
Fold the river.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: First two hands were on first orbit at table so no reads yet on the players. Third had was much later -- villian was 38/9.5/2.5 on 40 hands or so.

Hand 1:

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(8 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB.


Hand 2:

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(8 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB.


Hand 3:

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 - 3 betting the turn is really bad IMO, I think you're behind most of the time given the action to that point. I just call down after the raise. As played I pay off the river, he is unknown at this point so maybe he's going crazy with AK, and I think it's likely enough at these limits.

hand 2 - Would kind of depend on what read you have on villian (what did he show down in hand 1), but I think I fold, there's really not much he could be semibluffing with

Hand 3 - Have odds on the flop and turn, folding the river is likely an option, again if he has been showing down monsters when he gets aggressive I fold, if in other two hands he has shown down hands that don't correlate to his aggression I would call.

EDIT: You should only be capping preflop in hand 3 if you have reason to believe that he is 3 betting with hands that you're ahead of.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1

You can fold the river in hand #1 - you are never good here.
The one hand you could have possibly beat just filled up.

I just call the turn raise.

Hand #2.
I check the turn, every time.

Hand #3
Fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 3 we have flush draw on turn
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: JJ hands - 2 consecutive and 3rd one later

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1

You can fold the river in hand #1 - you are never good here.
The one hand you could have possibly beat just filled up.

I just call the turn raise.

Hand #2.
I check the turn, every time.

Hand #3
Fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 3 we have flush draw on turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I realised. I was editing as you wrote this.
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