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  #1  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:42 PM
iversonian iversonian is offline
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Default 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

Limped on button with Ad3d. 6 to an 9-5-3 flop with 2 hearts. Bet from EP and 5 of us see the turn for one bet. Turn is Ac, putting a 2-flush of clubs on board. Bet by player to my right, I raise, two players cold call, bettor 3-bets, everyone calls. River is 8h, check-check-bet by the turn bettor, I fold. Results to follow.
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2005, 10:48 PM
thirddan thirddan is offline
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

that is a bad fold...
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:34 AM
Russ McGinley Russ McGinley is offline
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

This is like straight outta SSHE. While you are in a bad position with two players left and possible raising behind you, your immediate call is getting like 18.5-1 or so. Are you 95% sure you're beat here? I actually just got done rereading this section over the Christmas break so its kinda fresh + still open on my desk:

pg148, bullet point #4: Call liberally for one bet on the river, even when you are almost sure you are beaten.

pg151, last paragraph: "It is almost impossible to read your opponent for a (better hand) with 95 percent certainty. Do not fold in large pots for one bet on the river if there is some chance you might win.

It looks grim for you but you have to call this. If there is a lot of action behind you, then you can think about folding. But consider the fact that the other two players have already checked so its not a given you are beat by either of them.
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:32 AM
iversonian iversonian is offline
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Default Results

One other person called. Turns out bettor had A3 as well. I don't mind losing the pot so much as the sneer he gave toward all the "drawing hands".

I was mostly afraid of action after me, and I figured the bettor would have a set or better aces up, if not the flush, at least 90% of the time.
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2005, 03:56 AM
Yerma Yerma is offline
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

I can see why you folded this. It looks like you're calling to chop occasionally and lose pretty often.

I'd probably call in the heat of battle and fold to a check-raise. The check-raise would make it pretty close to 99% that you are beat.

Anyways, if you're making a mistake folding, it can't be a big mistake since it's hard to put the aggressor on something like 9-5 for the smaller two pairs.
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2005, 04:39 AM
LuckyDevil LuckyDevil is offline
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, if you're making a mistake folding, it can't be a big mistake since it's hard to put the aggressor on something like 9-5 for the smaller two pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong!
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2005, 05:54 AM
mack848 mack848 is offline
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, if you're making a mistake folding, it can't be a big mistake since it's hard to put the aggressor on something like 9-5 for the smaller two pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong!

[/ QUOTE ]

Please let me know why this is "Wrong!"
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2005, 09:51 AM
Rudbaeck Rudbaeck is offline
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, if you're making a mistake folding, it can't be a big mistake since it's hard to put the aggressor on something like 9-5 for the smaller two pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong!

[/ QUOTE ]

Please let me know why this is "Wrong!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Because not only can the bettor have two smaller pair, he might have only one. Quite a few people who are more aggressive happily 3-bet the turn with TPTK, especially if they are hoping to charge multiple draws.

We are calling because we win more often than we need to.
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

Horrible fold. You need to win only 1 in 20 for your call to be right. Go read and reread the large pot sections in SSHE.
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: 6/12 Laydown - Is this what Ed Miller means by pot\'s too big?

I'd say it's a bad fold but your post is a little too incoherent to see who raised when. Who bet the flop, the SB, BB or UTG? The CO bet the turn? Looks to me like CO is saying he has an ace or two pair or something, but being 3-bet on this turn doesn't necessarily mean you're beat. He could be doing this with a big ace or an inferior two pair.

The only way I can see folding this river is if the flush comes and the other players go nuts.

By the way, please include pot sizes in your posts. By my math, you're getting 18.5:1 on this call. A fold is very, very bad.
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