who is cantseeu on UB? - Page 12

Matt Flynn · #**111** 10-13-2005, 12:46 PM

Congratulations Kane!

fnord_too · #**112** 10-13-2005, 12:48 PM

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Man, I feel kinda bad and depressed about all of this.

Its like I "won the lottery", but its all at someone else's expense. the grief ive caused others was all sort of compounded tonight. i make my living off of other people's misery.

no wonder buddha talks about right livelyhood.

i might not play poker again after tonight.

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I don't think you should feel bad or depressed over this, but I do think it bodes well for you that you are not riding high on elation. I seriously doubt you destroyed this guy's life or anything, I've seen him sitting in a lot of high games. Sounds like he was on major tilt and blew his UB roll, which may or may not be his entire poker BR, and poker may or may not be his only source of income. If it is, and it was his entire roll (worst case scenario from your standpoint), he is a degenerate and needs to leave the game. Maybe you helped him realize that; maybe you did not.

If this causes him (more than passing) misery, he was miserable to begin with. You live in an incredibly poor country, you know that CSY most defintely still has more material wealth and luxury than most people in the world. It takes a miserable person to feel sorry for himself because he has lost some wealth when he is still wealthier than most (which CSY may or may not be doing. For all we know he may have woke up this morning fine with the whole thing).

You cannot take responsibility for the actions of others, and I don't think you acted in any way that influenced his actions. If you want to feel sorry about someones fate, look out your window and I am sure you will find a more deserving candidate for your sorrow.

Ulysses · #**113** 10-13-2005, 01:06 PM

I don't feel bad in situations like this because the guy is going to lose it anyway. However, people should not think that because someone goes off for 100k or whatever that they are some rich guy who can just blow it off and it doesn't matter. Oftentimes these are gambling addicts destroying their lives when this happens.

Sometimes, you'll get a guy like say Ben Affleck or Leo DiCaprio playing poker who can drop 100k+ in a night and it is just part of their partying/entertainment expense. There are other guys who can on a single night drop 100k that will essentially destroy their lives. These guys are gambling degenerates and they are all around poker, probably moreso online than live, since one of the few things that keeps them from totally blowing out live is a sense of shame and embarrassment that is hidden playing anonymously on a computer.

ChicagoTroy · #**114** 10-13-2005, 01:16 PM

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I don't feel bad in situations like this because the guy is going to lose it anyway.

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I don't like this argument, or at least how its' worded, as it applies to crack dealers as well.

KKF is blameless, but I don't think that's why.

Officer Farva · #**115** 10-13-2005, 01:21 PM

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I don't think you should feel bad or depressed over this, but I do think it bodes well for you that you are not riding high on elation. I seriously doubt you destroyed this guy's life or anything, I've seen him sitting in a lot of high games. Sounds like he was on major tilt and blew his UB roll, which may or may not be his entire poker BR, and poker may or may not be his only source of income. If it is, and it was his entire roll (worst case scenario from your standpoint), he is a degenerate and needs to leave the game. Maybe you helped him realize that; maybe you did not.

If this causes him (more than passing) misery, he was miserable to begin with. You live in an incredibly poor country, you know that CSY most defintely still has more material wealth and luxury than most people in the world. It takes a miserable person to feel sorry for himself because he has lost some wealth when he is still wealthier than most (which CSY may or may not be doing. For all we know he may have woke up this morning fine with the whole thing).

You cannot take responsibility for the actions of others, and I don't think you acted in any way that influenced his actions. If you want to feel sorry about someones fate, look out your window and I am sure you will find a more deserving candidate for your sorrow.

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Very well said.

But the assurance that cantseeu or others like him can afford to lose or are on an inevitablle path of self-destruction does not neccessarily answer to the source of KKF's guilt, compassion, or sympathy.

I often have similar feelings when beating opponents in poker, and even occassionally when I lose (though normally I'm just pissed as hell and hateful of the "luck" that must have caused them to win). This occurs especially when at B&M cardrooms where it is apparent that certain players cannot afford their losses. Lately, I have been confronting the fact that these feelings may cause me to play less than optimally in some situations.

More importantly, it makes me consider my long term future in poker. And while I don't believe that your profession necessarily controls your spirituality or ultimate happiness, I sense that the negative feelings I can go through while playing poker may not be good for me in the long run.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on this. I'm sure this belongs in another forum but I thought KKF's experience was particularly poignant.

Rococo · #**116** 10-13-2005, 01:25 PM

KKF,

If taking this guy's money was somehow immoral or unethical (and I am not suggesting that it was), you cannot justify your conduct (as some on the board have suggested) on the ground that he would have lost the money to someone else if not you. If I see someone dead drunk in the street with a twenty dollar bill in his hand, I can be fairly certain that if I don't take the money, someone else will. That doesn't justify me taking it, of course.

As El D implied, you have to decide whether you are OK with taking money from a combination of rich guys and degenerate gamblers. If you are, fine, and if not, that's OK too, but don't kid yourself about where the profit is in the nosebleed games.

fnord_too · #**117** 10-13-2005, 01:34 PM

Absolutely. I wasn't suggesting that he was or was not a gambling addict, or destroying/not destroying his life, since I have no clue. If he is a degenerate destroying his life, I feel bad for him, but not as bad as I feel for the vast world population who lives in abject poverty. Whether degenrates who blow through 100k realize it or not, they still have it better than a lot of people. (You can be poor and happy and enlightened, but poor is nowhere nearly an adequate description for many parts of the world).

I've written a few times that everytime I play live I am hit in the face with just how degenerate some players are. It truly shocks me, and this is something one is mostly shielded from on line.

At any rate, I think the fact that KKF is not just euphoric over the big win is suggestive that he is not a degenrate gambler (who happens to be a winning player).

As to the live/online thing, what are your thoughts on the limitations on the volume of cash you can move per unit time on line? It seems like that mitigates a fair amount of the "destroy your life" potential. (though I may just not know the how and where to get large chunks of money in play on line quickly.)

punter11235 · #**118** 10-13-2005, 01:39 PM

Cant wait for what you will say about " I need to work on this and stop thinking short term. " now [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Ulysses · #**119** 10-13-2005, 01:44 PM

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everytime I play live I am hit in the face with just how degenerate some players are.

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Especially at lower limits live. At 3/6 and 6/12 I would routinely see guys blow their rent/food/diaper/etc. money. When I started playing 15/30, I'd sometimes see these guys make a last ditch effort by taking a stab at 15/30 with their case money.

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(though I may just not know the how and where to get large chunks of money in play on line quickly.)

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Where there's a will, there's a way.

maddog2030 · #**120** 10-13-2005, 01:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Man, I feel kinda bad and depressed about all of this.

Its like I "won the lottery", but its all at someone else's expense. the grief ive caused others was all sort of compounded tonight. i make my living off of other people's misery.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you felt that bad, you could give him his money back.

I have a feeling you don't feel that bad.