River Bluff

[Stefan_K]

Does anyone recomend a turn checkrais, check fold the river or anything else than my line? High went to sd both give me a reson to beleve that he is hard to bluff out a pot but aswell that he often has air and cant defend against a bet

villian is a 42/1 1.7/4.8/8.5 went to sd 48 only 100hands
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, MP folds.

River: (5.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets

[Koss]

Whenever someone bets a river blank like that I call almost 100% of the time. I really don't understand those bluffs. If you are going to try and bluff this guy out of a pot a turn check/raise is the way to go. You represent a 4 and hopefully he lays down a jack. I'm not sure if I recommend it against this player though. I think he's too likely to call you down with any kind of hand.

[jaxUp]

I would just fold this flop with 6-7 outs and getting 5:1. Once you call there, you're stuck calling the turn. A bluff c/r would have to work about 1/3 of the time to turn a profit (more if you're going to need to fire on the river) and I don't think it will. This is not a play I tend to make without specific reads. Also, a high WTSD devalues this play. I don't get this river bet. I don't think he folds 1/6 times. He has a high WTSD and this card is not scary at all.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
High went to sd both give me a reson to beleve that he is hard to bluff out a pot but aswell that he often has air and cant defend against a bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I find this statement very confusing. In any event, in this particular hand I'd c/f the river, but play the other streets the same. I don't think he's folding.

[RunDownHouse]

This is a very bad spot to bluff. Its not a scare card at all, and you're going to get called down out of sheer curiousity many times. If you're donking any street, donk the turn, hoping to trap MP. If both opponents call, you've got plenty of equity for it to be +EV.

[Peter Harris]

I agree with Jax's c/f flop line; there are tainted Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] outs, and queens may not stand up anyway, you're getting 5-1 [6-1 if MP calls] which doesn't look appetising to me.

if i call the flop, i play the same but c/f river. No sense in bluffing here.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're donking any street, donk the turn, hoping to trap MP. If both opponents call, you've got plenty of equity for it to be +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do we really have that many outs? I don't think so. And we definitely aren't going to fold anyone out. If we call the flop, just call the turn.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]

Do we really have that many outs? I don't think so. And we definitely aren't going to fold anyone out. If we call the flop, just call the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd put us in the 12-13 outs range when the turn spade comes.That puts us slightly behind vs 2 callers, and gives us a slightly negative -neutral edge if we ever fold them both. However, I don't think that both are likely to fold ever. His WTSD is too high to bother bluffing him. I think it's a losing play.

edited for retardation.

[POKhER]

C/f river, No one will put you on a hand. Except a retardedly played 4X and even then, they will call as they think "why didn't he raise the turn? Hmm".

Donk turn if hes weak tight, whats his WTSD/W$SD?

[numeri]

So you think he has an 8 sometimes here and our 9 is good? Otherwise, I only get 9 spades, 3 non-[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] tens, and 3 Q's is 15, but the J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] should be discounted a bit. Seems to be an easy check/call. Maybe I'm missing something, though.