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  #31  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:19 PM
banditdad banditdad is offline
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Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

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Actually you couldn't pick a better flop to auto bet given the board and opponents.

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Can you give us an example of a flop where you would check behind, or sometimes check behind?

/mc

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KKx, QQx, KQx, TJJ, etc.. Not many. Normally I'm making a continuation bet. As would most players in a shorthanded small stakes game. If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.

With this board if someone hit the flush or staright and is looking to c/r I want to know it with one sb. I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you.
  #32  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

"I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you."

You're not giving a free card, you're taking one. The continuation bet takes this pot down on the flop just about never. You more than likely do not have the best hand, equity-wise, at the moment. You need to improve to win. It is checked to you. Why on earth would betting be superior to taking the free card here?
  #33  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:36 PM
jt1 jt1 is offline
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Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

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You're not giving a free card, you're taking one.

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  #34  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:40 PM
Entity Entity is offline
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Location: joining the U.S.S smallstakes
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Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

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And you didn't bet out on the flop because? You needed to narrow the field and gain info on the flop. Bet it.

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So your advice is, having raised, to auto-bet every single flop regardless of the cards? If not, can you give me an example of a flop that's worse for continuation betting?

Checking this flop is a smart use of position.

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I'm sorry but I really think checking this flop is a major mistake. Shows weakness, allows the others to catch up, just not a good play.

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Checking this flop is 100% correct.
  #35  
Old 12-31-2005, 04:08 PM
Monty Cantsin Monty Cantsin is offline
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Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

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Can you give us an example of a flop where you would check behind, or sometimes check behind?

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KKx, QQx, KQx, TJJ, etc..

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I would be more inclined to bet these, especially the first two.

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Normally I'm making a continuation bet. As would most players in a shorthanded small stakes game. If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.


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I'm glad you've figured out how to continuation bet, welcome to the ranks of the novice poker player.

So far in this thread you've: misread the action, given out sketchy advice, and shown no indication of being able to think beyond the most rudimentary, beginner-level, fortune-cookie rules of thumb (Charge the draws! Define your hand!) So I find your attempt to condescend bizarre. Nice use of "myriad" though, Gandalf.

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With this board if someone hit the flush or staright and is looking to c/r I want to know it with one sb.

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Really? How often do you think a c/r here is a made flush or straight? How often do you think you're currently ahead? How often do you think you'll be ahead by the river? How often are you drawing live? Dead? How often is a bet going to fold a hand that you would like to fold?

I don't think the answers to these questions are obvious, but I'm pretty sure they are the right questions to ask in this situation. Unlike you, I think this situation is fairly complex and interesting, but I'm not a continuation bet expert like yourself.

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I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one.

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So, you would be more inclined to check behind if this was heads up? Are you sure you aren't just trolling me now?

/mc
  #36  
Old 12-31-2005, 04:24 PM
waffle waffle is offline
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Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

Very easy flop check. This is a no-brainer. If I had to fabricate a situation where it was clearly correct to check on the flop after raising PF, it would look almost exactly like this hand.

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If you don't understand this concept I suggest you read any one of the myriad poker books & articles that are available to you.


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Wow, dude. Monty's location shows that he's done more digging around in the archives (an excellent source of poker information) than you ever have. And he's still trying to help you after you kick dirt in his face. I'd be appreciative.

Your arguments against checking:

"Showing weakness" - lol. [censored], I fold 80% of my hands preflop, that's pretty weak isn't it?
"Allowing the others to catch up" - Yeah, we're definitely a huge favorite to win this pot. ...
  #37  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:26 PM
banditdad banditdad is offline
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Posts: 386
Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

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"I'm sorry but I don't give free cards to 3 other players on the flop with a board like this one. And neither should you."

You're not giving a free card, you're taking one. The continuation bet takes this pot down on the flop just about never. You more than likely do not have the best hand, equity-wise, at the moment. You need to improve to win. It is checked to you. Why on earth would betting be superior to taking the free card here?

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You are not trying to take the pot down. While it is not the exact scenario I would refer you to part 5 of SSHE. I could probably find the similar passage in ITH but I don't feel like looking.


If you really believe that by checking on the flop you are taking, not giving a free card you need to rethink your game. I really don't care how many 2+2ers post otherwise: This is a weak play guaranteed to allow someone to catch up.
I am only to happy to take the free card when I am on the draw and the raiser checks on the button. If I hit my out I am going to play it just like the villian here did. Call the turn and raise the river and you are toast. However, if you had bet out on the flop there is a good chance that, almost a certainty, that one player will fold and a good chance that 2 will fold. If I am on a gutshot or need one more club I may fold depending on the odds, And if I have paired my 4,5,6, (which I wouldn't have played to begin with but that's a different subject), I would consider a fold here and probably folded to the turn bet with an A on board if I have a weak pair with no redraw.

Yor are the raiser. You are not taking a free card by checking, you are giving free cards to 3 other players. You are allowing them to catch up.

BTW, just as an aside. The A9 should probably not have been played to begin with, but that's a different discussion.

Could all of you who would check the flop here please PM the sites you play at? I'd like to join your games.
  #38  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:28 PM
banditdad banditdad is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 386
Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

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[ QUOTE ]
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And you didn't bet out on the flop because? You needed to narrow the field and gain info on the flop. Bet it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So your advice is, having raised, to auto-bet every single flop regardless of the cards? If not, can you give me an example of a flop that's worse for continuation betting?

Checking this flop is a smart use of position.

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I'm sorry but I really think checking this flop is a major mistake. Shows weakness, allows the others to catch up, just not a good play.

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Checking this flop is 100% correct.

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You are wrong. It is 100% incorrect and a pretty good reasonn why I regularly take your money.
  #39  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:29 PM
TheMetetron TheMetetron is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 92
Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

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I'm pretty sure I call that. I can't give great reasons but it has something to do with a river board pairing card being a good bluff card, most people waking up on the turn with a better hand, busted flush/straight draws being out there.

I think you are easily good 1-8 here.

Krishan

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Was waiting for someone to post my feelings.

It's hard to articulate, but there is something about this whole thing that makes me want to call.

I agree, 1-8 times, at least, this pot is yours. Call.
  #40  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:32 PM
TheMetetron TheMetetron is offline
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Default Re: Do I need to pay this off??

banditdad,

You don't take my money. Your flop bet would be horrible. Stop trolling these boards.

piss off,

Metetron
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