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  #1  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:39 PM
BigEndian BigEndian is offline
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Default Blind steal, change of pace.

The SB is a good player and probably knows I'm a good player. Blind battles are a feel thing granted but anyone hate my line. I was going to call a decent river card - that wasnt it.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:05 AM
SGS SGS is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

If you are going to call a decent river, I like a raise on the turn with a free showdown. This way you pay the same, are charging him when you are ahead and who knows maybe he'll fold a 10.

SGS
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:44 AM
goofball goofball is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

I can't believe you played this hand so passively with a pair. I'd likely just bet the flop there.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

You should have bet the flop. You usually have the best hand and it makes the rest of the hand easier to play.

Why did you check this flop? How did you expect him to react on the turn?

You have shown weakness and he could very well could be betting the turn with nothing, a draw, or Ace high. A check on the flop and a raise on the turn would look like a slowplay and you could force out a T or pocket 9's. That being said, I am confident that a flop bet is the standard play here.

I think that the flop-check, turn-call, river-fold is one of the worst ways to play this situation. If he is bluffing the turn, many players will still fire away at the river a significant portion of the time.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:49 AM
BigEndian BigEndian is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

I like that play as well but didn't do it this time as it blew up in my face with a 3-bet about 30 hands earlier.

- Jim
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:50 AM
BigEndian BigEndian is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

Given the flop texture, I didn't feel a continuation bet was mandatory.

- Jim
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:19 AM
Bluffoon Bluffoon is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

If the blinds are tough and aggressive and/or my image is bad or for whatever reason I feel I can't take control of a hand like this I will just pass preflop.

If I am going to play this (and I think it is definitely playable) I would make a play for the pot with a flop bet or if for some reason I checked through the flop I would raise the turn for a free showdown.

Running bad?
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:13 PM
sy_or_bust sy_or_bust is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

checking the flop is clever against an opponent who's going to push back with draws. tons and tons of sb calling hands hit this board in some form, and you can't differentiate kings from J9 or 87s no matter what. most of these hands, even worse ones like 55, will bet into you on the turn planning to check/fold or check/call the river (you aren't betting many boards, if any, UI). i suspect most who advocate betting the flop haven't considered how to react correctly to a c/r from a good player.

anyway. raising the turn is a faux-tricky play thats probably not worth it. also, your one fear w/ a flop check is getting check-raised by a tough draw on the turn, but thats a pretty big gamble (that you'll bet) for villain w/o showdown value.

river is a murder card, gotta fold.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:45 PM
imashyboi imashyboi is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

Any reason why you called the turn? The pot size is really small. The pot would need to be 8BB in order for you to chase your 5 outter(could be less if he has an A). Since the SB is solid he would call your raise in that position with either a low-mid pocket or a AK-KJs type of hands which would already hit the board or has many outs.

I actually don't mind betting the flop here and see what happens. It would be like a feeler bet and see what happens. If he respects your plays he might fold JJ-QQ,99 to you thinking he only has 2 outs. If I get raised on then I'll have to call and then fold on the turn UI.
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:53 PM
SGS SGS is offline
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Default Re: Blind steal, change of pace.

Yea I hate it when that happens. But if someone is willing to 3-bet you with less than bottom pair then they deserve the pot I figure. You just have to make sure sometimes you take this line with your monsters as well.

SGS
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