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  #1  
Old 09-04-2005, 11:59 PM
IHateCats IHateCats is offline
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Posts: 68
Default Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, how to best extract max here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (10 handed) converter

SB ($1980)
BB ($2149.81)
UTG ($1738)
UTG+1 ($3588)
Hero ($7492)
MP1 ($3317)
MP2 ($2205)
MP3 ($919)
CO ($4318)
Button ($1884)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $20, Hero calls $20, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls $20, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $67</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $57, BB calls $47, UTG+1 calls $47, Hero calls $47, MP3 calls $47.

Flop: ($402) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks

A short bit of history on the last 15 hands or so is very relevant. I've busted the SB twice in that strech when he overplayed QQ on a J98 board when I hit my set and also when my potstuck OESF draw outdrew his all in push with an A high heart draw (which was all he had). He's very LAG, raises most times when there is either no raise or more than $80 in blinds regardless of his cards and he's been tilting badly the last 15 hands. In his current state, I was hoping for a steal raise from him that I'd be happy to CR'd all in, hence the limp with QQ but the CO who raised is a solid player that I have a healthy respect for, he's likely on AK, AQ, JJ or better here and I'm sure he's noticed I've led out both times with big hands.

What's the best line here to maximize on this hand? I'm afraid if I lead here, I'm likely to drive people out on this drawless board in droves but again if the initial raiser fires and someone else calls or raises, either a call or a CR here from me is going to scream set with the volume up to 11.
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  #2  
Old 09-05-2005, 03:37 AM
captZEEbo1 captZEEbo1 is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, how to best extract max here?

raise preflop? given that you limped, lrr since that raise is the weakest raise ever.
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2005, 04:34 AM
Lucky Lucky is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, how to best extract max here?

Given how it was played and with great flop/no draws etc. Check to raiser. Hopefully he bets, SB gets nutty.

If its checked thru pound turn hard, i.e. bet pot if checked to again. Raise it up if someone in front of you bets.
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2005, 04:43 AM
chuddo chuddo is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, how to best extract max here?

as much as i really love leading flops with a set, this is one of the times i may be ol' slow-playin seto.

the main reasons to not slowplay in general are:

1.- someone catching up to you on a free draw. (obvious)

2.- if playing very actively, you will be betting and raising a lot, so you need to be doing it with monsters as well.

3.- not building a big pot when you have a big hand (important aspect a lot of slow-playing monkeys overlook)
---

but with this hand i advocate just checking and seeing what happens. why? because there isn't much that can go wrong.

1a.- no turn can be terrible for you. no even slight chance of someone having a weak gutshot draw getting there on you for free. also if it is checked through, then a A/K is no big wup as you know it is highly unlikely KK/AA can be out against you. in fact either would be welcome if checked through.

2a.- a check does not seem too out of sync here. it is a six-way slighty raised pot on an ultra-dry board. a check would be routine with many many hands you would limp-call with.

3a.- there is already 400 in the pot, so it is healthy enough to develop deep enough to stack someone by the river, even the 4k CO.

like you said you worry that if someone bets, there is a call or a raise and you call it would send the red warning flags up, people are terrible and will still often completely miss them.

i say that by checking here, you give everyone else the option to do something stupid and make a huge mistake (such as tilty-lag SB).

the possibilities of great things happening if you check here outweigh the downsides i believe.

if you are going to win a huge one by leading, then you will very likely win that same huge one by checking. maybe it will be slightly less, but not always, and that is a chance worth taking.

if you could i'd like to know what you did and what the flop action was, and what turned before full results.
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  #5  
Old 09-05-2005, 06:57 AM
The Truth The Truth is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, how to best extract max here?

Raise preflop, check raise the flop.

This one isn't real complex.
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2005, 08:57 AM
Chris Daddy Cool Chris Daddy Cool is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, how to best extract max here?

the best way to maximize your money here is if the villian has AA/KK and/or if one of the limpers has 77, 22.

getting the most money into the pot has more to do with this than how you actually play the hand.

so for the most part, if these hands are out, it really doesn't matter what you do, becuase money will eventually be thrown into the middle.

if those hands aren't out, it's going to be tough no matter what.

generally i like to give action right away and hope that someone has something.
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  #7  
Old 09-05-2005, 12:09 PM
IHateCats IHateCats is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, (How the flop played out)

Action on the flop was checked to me, I had virutally identical reasoning to what you elaborated on so I checked here. Checked to initial raiser who bet $234 into $400 pot, called by potentially still tilting SB, folded to me so pot is $850+ with MP3, CO &amp; SB still potentially in the hand, with CO and SB having put $ in on the flop. I honestly don't have a clue what the CO has at this point, he could be making that bet with virtually anything on this board and ditto for SB's call.
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2005, 02:28 PM
mgsimpleton mgsimpleton is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, (How the flop played out)

there are no draws. multiway already big pot. your set only has 2 overcards even. please please please just call.
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2005, 04:04 PM
Niwa Niwa is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, how to best extract max here?

word.
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2005, 04:57 PM
IHateCats IHateCats is offline
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Default Re: Party 10/20 NL Flopped set, (How the flop played out)

I know how a CR here looks but I'm not entirely sure just calling doesn't scream even more strength than check raising here since it's a completely drawless board. Personally I'd be more likely to CR a marginal holding than a monster in these very specific circumstances.

Anyone else have an opinion on way or the other?

Personally, I'd never cr a set of 7's or 2's here but i'm not sure solid regular knows that and SB can try anything here, he's been firing at pots on the turn while on tilt, not just calling.
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