Getting Turned Off of Playing in Vegas...

[dicelumpY2005]

To me, games are way tougher in this city than other parts of the country, and I'm getting turned off of playing around here... I was back home in Niagara Falls twice in the last 2 months, along with trips to Arizona and California, all in which I managed to get in some poker playing time. To get right to the point, I find the games outside of Nevada to be way easier to beat, and thus I'm getting turned off of even wanting to play in Las Vegas. My game of choice is usually 1/2nl, or a bigger spread limit game when in Arizona... I'm comparing my last 5 sessions outside of Nevada to my last 5 on the strip, and the differences are significant. (-480 in Vegas, +1130 outside the state) I don't consider myself a bad player by any means, but I'm getting the feeling that games around here in Vegas are starting to become too tough. Anyone else who travels around a bit get that feeling? I'm almost ready to devote more time to Party Poker than on the strip because the competition gap is starting to grow significantly...

[Bigdaddydvo]

I ran bad in Vegas for the entire duration of my WSOP trip...down $1100 over 9 days, a decent hit on my bankroll. I played a lot at the limits you described. Did I think the Vegas players were much better than what I was accustomed to playing? Not really.

I think you're using monetary results to gauge "how good the games are." Base that on how people play, not on how much money you win or lose. Remember, you can be down 30BB or more in a fantastic game, e.g. 8 to a flop and 4 to a river. You can also be up in a game full of solid TAGs.

Tough games definitely exist. Fortunately, in Vegas, you have a fantastic opportunity to practice game selection.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Tough games definitely exist. Fortunately, in Vegas, you have a fantastic opportunity to practice game selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the people who play mid-limit stakes here are below average to terrible. Many of them are tourists, but the locals make up a fair share of the mediocre talent pool. There are a handful of local players who you wouldn't want at your table, but they are few and far between.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Game selection is the KEY in any casino environment where there are multiple games of the same limits to choose from. When I lived in the northeast I would cruise the tables of the taj or the trop about every 20 minutes, watching a hand or two (between my own hands), scouting for bigger fish, better games. And I would switch pretty often if I thought it was +EV to do so.

Even today, one game in the room was great, the other basically stunk, too tight. You'd be crazy to stay in the tight game, small pots, when there was a loose game, big pots, right next door. Switch tables, practice game selection already!

al

[TimTimSalabim]

Can't speak for NL, but midlimit Vegas games have always been tighter and tougher than in other places. Thankfully, these games today are much looser and easier to beat than they were 5 years ago. But relative to other places, they are still tougher. People routinely tell me that their games in their casinos back home at similar limits are much looser and wilder. I even hear tales of streets being capped multiway, which almost never happens in a Vegas midlimit game, some of which is of course due to the 5-bet cap. But even a 3-bet usually evokes gasps of shock on the Strip [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

[Jeffage]

Yea, I love Vegas, but the typical 30-60 and 80-160 games are much tougher than the rest of the country. Atlantic City games typically have much more action, but Vegas is probably a better place to live. Choices, choices.

Jeff

[dicelumpY2005]

I think you guys are right about game selection and what not... I'm only using a small sample from the few places I've been playing lately in Vegas (MGM, Mandalay, Wynn...) I know there are better games/games that are easier to beat(like the ones I've encountered in Arizona, Cali, and Western NY); it just seems like I haven't been able to find them lately... Oh well, like Al said...game selection... I'm gonna take a different approach when picking a game around here in Vegas...just seems like the money comes easier no matter where I sit in the above mentioned "other states".

[sternroolz]

I typically play $9-18 LHE in Los Angeles, and occasionally still play as low as $3-6.

Games in Vegas have always been a little tighter, but in the past two years I have seen those games loosen up quite a bit. I typically play $6-12 and $10-20 at Mirage, $8-16 at Bellagio, and have played $3-6 at nearly every downtown and strip casino.

One thing I have noticed about some Vegas regulars is they get into a rut about the time of day and location where they play. It seems that many players have an agenda of things that are not just finding the best game. Some don't like certain casinos, some don't like crowds, some don't like long waits. You have a huge number of games to choose from, you just have to move around and be more flexible about the times and where you play.

Plain and simple, daytime games tend to be tight. Late night weekend games are easy pickings. That is when you get the most tourists. That is when you get players that are drunk.

Places I have found good games include:

Alladin: Everytime I play here, and its always Friday or Saturday night, the 1/2 NL game is absolutely rolling. Last time I played, I saw a girl so drunk she was falling over pull over $800 out of the game. If that is not a good game, I do not know what is.

Binions: $3-6 on a weekend is full of drinking players that are not very good.

Luxor: I played $4-8 here and got seven bet by bottom str8 with 4 str8 cards on the board. Ridiculous. 3 of the 10 players at the table had no clue how to play poker.

Bellagio $8-16 and Mirage $3-6 and $6-12 have always been good to me. I have heard that the $6-12 is a tight game, but not on weekends with tourists, at least not in my experience. The $10-20 has clueful players who are not quite clueful enough. But you have to work a bit for the money there. It's kind of a wierd game with players who play to loose at the wrong times and two tight at the wrong times. Kind of like they try to buy the pot when the pot is very large and therefore they have zero chance to bluff and succeed, yet they check it down in small pots where a bet could have a decent chance to pick up the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are right about game selection and what not... I'm only using a small sample from the few places I've been playing lately in Vegas (MGM, Mandalay, Wynn...) I know there are better games/games that are easier to beat(like the ones I've encountered in Arizona, Cali, and Western NY); it just seems like I haven't been able to find them lately... Oh well, like Al said...game selection... I'm gonna take a different approach when picking a game around here in Vegas...just seems like the money comes easier no matter where I sit in the above mentioned "other states".

[/ QUOTE ]

[peterchi]

I agree with the person who said you shouldn't use monetary results over 10 sessions to determine how good the games are. Your statement of "I 'feel' that these games are tougher" is a much more valid measurement.

At the same time, I've felt the exact opposite, in my limited sample size. In three 1/2nl sessions in AC vs. three 1/2nl sessions in Vegas, I thought that the Vegas games were much softer. Less aggression, more stupid calls, etc.

The real truth? I have no idea. It's highly possible that I just got placed at great tables in Vegas through no table selection of my own. Maybe the baby nl games in AC are better in general and I just happened to get thrown to the lions there.

But at the very least, I can tell you that the soft Vegas nl games do still exist (unless my three Vegas sessions were a large anomoly, which I doubt), so now you just gotta do your best to find them.

[TheCroShow]

i agree, do not use a limited amount of results decide what is tough and what is not. you are an honest poker player, 99% of the people on this site do not lose (according to their posts!!). do not worry about it, pick better spots, find the loosey goosey games and tear em up! =D