88 hand debatable?

scottjf8 · #1 03-17-2005, 09:02 AM

Last night's 7:45pm $10 NLHE on PokerStars

We're getting close to the final table, and I'm the chip leader.. Villian in this hand is VERY aggressive, pushing with QT/J9 type of hands..

When he raised, I thought for a bit before making my decision.

Since I was chipleader, is this a bad spot to put this many chips into the table? Should I have tried to fold to the final table?

Harsh comments/criticizm welcome.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t12000 (5 handed) converter

BB (t116194)
UTG (t147894)
MP (t137514)
Hero (t220188)
SB (t189730)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t36000, 1 fold, BB raises to t115594, Hero calls t79594.

Flop: (t232988) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t232988) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t232988) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t232988

Results in white below: 
BB has Kc Ad (two pair, aces and jacks).
Hero has 8h 8c (two pair, jacks and eights).
Outcome: BB wins t232988.

UMCorona · #2 03-17-2005, 09:49 AM

Has the BB been pushing with those kinds of hands behind raises, or only open pushing?

Either way, it's difficult to know whether you're ahead or not with 88 against an all-in reraise from someone with a good amount of chips left. Even against the fairly weak hands you've seen the BB push with, 88 is still a coin-flip at best and way behind to a bigger pair, which is of course a possibility.

Calling in this situation isn't terrible, as you were in fact ahead at the time and he just caught one of the cards he needed to beat you, but personally I'd probably keep my chip lead and wait for a better spot to go after him.

Bernas · #3 03-17-2005, 10:25 AM

No need to go to battle here.

Wait and pick up the blinds from the less aggressive players. Or make a stand with better cards than 88.

HeroInBlack · #4 03-17-2005, 10:30 AM

I love running into these guys in these low buy-in tournaments. It was a close call, but you did get in with the best hand. Truthfully, though, you gotta figure you can catch this guy with a hand better than 88. I think I would have folded and waited for a greater advantage.

Now, if he had gone all in and shown Q3s or A5s a time or two, then it's an easy call with 88.

Keep in mind, though, that if he had turned over his AK and shown it to you, the money you alredy had invested in the pot would have made calling with 88 the proper play.

jimotto · #5 03-17-2005, 10:59 AM

You are getting 2-1 on your call, and your read is a coin flip. I think this is an easy call.

Bernas · #6 03-17-2005, 11:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and your read is a coin flip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did he say his read was a coin flip? I must have missed that.

schwza · #7 03-17-2005, 11:46 AM

suppose that villain is actually pretty tight, and will push AK-AQ, AA-99, and fold everything else. then how bad a shape would you be in?

36 AK/AQ = 55%
36 AA-99 = 20%

total = 37.5%

you're calling 80k to win almost 240k, so you only need to be about 35% to make it break-even in chips. and that's if you're playing against a very tight player who would fold 77 or AJ to a button raise. from your description, there's no way this guy folds those hands (or A4s, probably), so this is an easy call.

also, every time you fold to a pre-flop 3-bet you lose some of your stealing power.

[ QUOTE ]
Since I was chipleader, is this a bad spot to put this many chips into the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

being the chipleader should make you want to splash around more, not less. you can afford hands like this and not bust, where other can't. also, once i get to the very high blinds, i like to make my steals more like 2.5x instead of 3x. i can't give you super logical reasoning behind it, but i know a lot of very strong players do as well (raymer likes 2.7x).

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have tried to fold to the final table?

[/ QUOTE ]

do you mean fold 88 to begin with? that would a truly horrible play. this is the best time to be a big stack - short-handed, near some bubble-ish situation. you should definitely be open raising 22 in that spot.

scottjf8 · #8 03-17-2005, 03:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and your read is a coin flip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did he say his read was a coin flip? I must have missed that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is a list of the cards he showed down with.. nothing that told me he's playing big cards...

showed [Kc Ts]
showed [8c 8d]
showed [7h 7d]
showed [Qd Qs]
showed [Qh Jh]
showed [6s 6d]
showed [Js 8d]
showed [Kd Td]
showed [Ad Ks]

curtains · #9 03-17-2005, 03:40 PM

I would call here...the pot odds are too great, and your hand is too strong for such a shorthanded table.