NLTHE with the jokers

[imported_metrognome7]

I'm friggin' horrible with math, someone help me out: what would be the specific odds of one of the two jokers being in play (in a player's hand or on the board) on a given hand in an 8-handed game? How about the odds of BOTH being in play at the same time?

[Vex]

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I'm friggin' horrible with math, someone help me out: what would be the specific odds of one of the two jokers being in play (in a player's hand or on the board) on a given hand in an 8-handed game? How about the odds of BOTH being in play at the same time?

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Let's use the computer geek string matching single-character wildcard "?" to represent the joker. Assume we're using a 52-card deck with two jokers added.

Odds of being dealt ?x or ??: 7.338%, or about 13.6:1
Odds of being dealt the omnipotent ?? hand: 1325:1

Odds of one or both of two hands holding ?x or ??: 14.4%, or about 5.9:1
Odds of at least one of three hands holding ?x or ??: 21.17%, or about 3.7:1
Odds of at least one of four hands holding ?x or ??: 27.67%, or about 2.6:1
Odds of at least one of five hands holding ?x or ??: 33.9%, or about 2:1
Odds of at least one of six hands holding ?x or ??: 39.8%, or about 1.5:1
Odds of at least one of seven hands holding ?x or ??: 45.5%, or about 1.2:1
Odds of at least one of eight hands holding ?x or ??: 50.9%, or about 1:1
Odds of at least one of nine hands holding ?x or ??: 56%, or about 1:1.25
Odds of at least one of ten hands holding ?x or ??: 60.8%, or about 1:1.5

Odds of at least one joker hitting the board, when there is not one in your hand, and you have no information about other hands: 18.5%, or about 4.4:1

Odds of the other joker hitting the board when you have one in your hand: 9.6%, or about 9.4:1

[Tilt]

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Would it be feasible to laydown AA preflop to a raise and a reraise at fear of AceJoker or JokerJoker.

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AA becomes the 15th best starting hand in this game. Of course it would be feasible to lay it down. AA in this game is only about as strong as AQs in hold em.

If you had joker-joker in this game, it would be a great trapping hand. Even if your opponent flops the nut straight, so do you, but when you get all-in you have an any-flush + full house freeroll.

[RoundersRocks!]

I could see jokers not screwing up the game too much if you were playing an omaha variation in which players were dealt more than 4 cards. Although that game is pretty unconventional anyway. Kind of fun though.

[lgas]

In one the home games I play in, a guy invented a game he called "turn and burn" where it's exactly Hold 'Em but the turn card and any matching cards anyone holds or on the board are wild.

They play mostly a spread limit game ($0.05-$5.00), but it would surely be more interesting NL-style [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Most of my strategy adjustments are just based on my reads of people because most of the people in the game are pretty easy to read, but I'd certainly welcome any specific ideas anyone has for proper strategy for this game.

-
John

[PocketJokers72]

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Man, can you imagine the power of pocket jokers?

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I AM ALL POWERFUL!!!

Just ask my old lady after I give her the dutch oven treatment.

/end useless post

[stigmata]

How about moderating the almighty Joker so that it cannot be used to make straights or flushes. This way it becomes extremely powerful (allways flops top pair with no fear of overcards) but vulnerable to certain draws.

Or the value of the Joker is decided by the highest flop card, and its suit is decided by your kicker. This means you have top pair on the flop but are vulnerable to the usual draws. It will also be a pretty crummy hand on many flops, and a monster on others. I think this version should retain a more "Hold 'em Flavour" to it all.

[stigmata]

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Or the value of the Joker is decided by the highest flop card, and its suit is decided by your kicker. This means you have top pair on the flop but are vulnerable to the usual draws. It will also be a pretty crummy hand on many flops, and a monster on others. I think this version should retain a more "Hold 'em Flavour" to it all.

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I think this second version is interesting, and could make a playable version of the game. On further reflection:

The Rx hands (where R is the Joker) have some interesting effects on hand values. For example AA is still the best hand (after the rare RR; which flops top set everytime), but AR is better than AKs. All of the R:Broadway hands are monster suited broadways -- they will allways flop TPGK and as such should virtually allways be raised and reraised preflop.

Where things get interesting is the R:Rag hands. They are suited, and they have the ability to flop two-pair and trips slightly more than unpaired hands. However, most of the time you will be flopping top pair with a bad kicker, which will lead to difficult flop decisions. Similarly, if the flop is rags, your hand will be extremely vulnerable to overcards on the turn and river.

Therefore the R:rag hands are something of a double-edged sword. Whilst you are gauranteed top pair on the flop, they can become very tricky to play on the flop.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

It might be interesting if you played with a bug rather than jokers wild. (For the uninformed, the bug can only be used to complete a flush or straight and otherwise counts as an ace). Obviously, then, this would affect only boards with a possible flush or straight, or with an ace.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

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You should fold any hand preflop that's not a pocket pair or Joker/x. My guess is that sets are still going to be pretty tough to beat, but any other hand is in terrible shape vs Joker/x. Any joker is a reraising hand preflop.

Similarly, you should put in pretty much infinite raises on any flop with a joker (since you have ridiculous odds to improve even if you're behind), and should proceed to call to the river with joker/x if you're playing limit, no matter what the board is.


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If played with two jokers, is this necessarily the case?