bet for value here? also did I have pot odds to call?

[meanjean]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (7 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[nyc999]

raise the flop, you probably would have seen the turn for free (if not call), and definitely bet the river.

[Marquis]

You have the nut straight. Bet it.

[77rules]

1. Raise this pre flop. QJs is a good hand, and if somebody wants to come along with A-rag, they should have to pay for it.

2. Raise on the flop. You have OESD to the nuts with two overcards. Again, if there's a lonely A out there, you can't let him draw cheaply.

3. The turn call is fine, and the river check is fine too.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
2. Raise on the flop. You have OESD to the nuts with two overcards. Again, if there's a lonely A out there, you can't let him draw cheaply.

3. The turn call is fine, and the river check is fine too.


[/ QUOTE ]

2. The "lone-A" isn't drawing, his Ace high has your QJ crushed right now

3. Are you serious? How do you make money when you don't bet when you make your draw? Do you not realize he made a straight on the river? How could you check here?

[77rules]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. Raise on the flop. You have OESD to the nuts with two overcards. Again, if there's a lonely A out there, you can't let him draw cheaply.

3. The turn call is fine, and the river check is fine too.


[/ QUOTE ]

2. The "lone-A" isn't drawing, his Ace high has your QJ crushed right now

3. Are you serious? How do you make money when you don't bet when you make your draw? Do you not realize he made a straight on the river? How could you check here?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, excuse my choice of words. What I'm saying is, you want to move a lonely A of his hand, a call isn't going to do that, a raise might.

Clearly BB wasn't impressed by his hand pre flop, or he would have bet it. My thinking is that a baby flush is highly likely, followed by a two pair/set. He could even have Axs. It's the case of only getting called by hands who have you beat, and the risk of getting C/R. I don't think you'll get more than one caller either ...

All in all, if betting for value here is +EV, it's only slightly so IMO. So checking here is fine, it's not a big mistake.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
Clearly BB wasn't impressed by his hand pre flop, or he would have bet it. My thinking is that a baby flush is highly likely, followed by a two pair/set. He could even have Axs. It's the case of only getting called by hands who have you beat, and the risk of getting C/R. I don't think you'll get more than one caller either ...

[/ QUOTE ]

you are thinking WAY too scared. when he sees the flop, we can narrow BB's holding to... any 2. many typical players will not raise out of the blinds.. except with big pairs or AK. putting BB on two pair, a set, or a baby flush from a flop/turn bet and river check is not a healthy attitude. if anything, it looks like Tx or 9x which is scared of the face card on the river. he saw the flop with any 2, he will have a worse hand far more often than not.

[ QUOTE ]
All in all, if betting for value here is +EV, it's only slightly so IMO. So checking here is fine, it's not a big mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

not betting this river is a huge mistake.. not for this single occurence in particular, but because it comes up quite frequently. if you cannot find a river value bet here, you are passing up on many profitable river bets.

[77rules]

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. Two (at least) for betting on the river, one (me) mildly against. From now on I'll start betting the river more than I do today.

Thank you all.

[TheHip41]

I don't mean to be rude, but what the hell are you doing? Why would you call the turn bet if you aren't going to be the river when you hit your out? Don't you think if someone had a flush they would have bet it? Sooooo weak

[meanjean]

exactly my point....I hit one of my outs that made a flush possible....do I bet and fear a check raise and pay off the flush or do I just check...

In hindsight, I totally agree with the pre-flop raise. Still debating the flop raise in my mind