Do some more hand reading...

private joker · #1 09-06-2005, 04:15 AM

As well as some strategy, and then tell me what to do on the river:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP folds, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button 3-bets, BB calls, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (16.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB 3-bets, Hero...?

imported_CaseClosed326 · #2 09-06-2005, 04:25 AM

Caps and laughs...You're behind QQ and 22, I don't play 5/10 but I assume they still raise QQ there. So QQ is not probable.

What do they have? Pocket 4s and some combo of 2 and a 7,Q, or 4.

Edit
I missed that is was 6 handed. I raise with 77 preflop 6 handed.

mikeyvegas · #3 09-06-2005, 04:32 AM

Ok let's get this started:

Pre flop: With it being 6 handed, any thoughts on opening with 77?

Flop: Standard

Turn: Yep, I think standard too

River: I cap it with 2nd nut boat.

As for hand reading. Well since there wasn't any raising pre-flop, and no action on the flop I think it's reasonable to discount QQ from both the Button and BB's hand.

The turn sure defines both of there hands as monsters. So it looks like the both have sets, set and 2pr, or both have 2 pair. So BB could have Q-7, Q-4, etc... and IMO Button has either a set 4s or 2s. The river either brought your miracle card, or buttons/BBs.

Since I hope you won this hand I predict BB has Q-2 and Button has 44. I'm to tired to work out all the possible hands and odds but since there is only 1 had the beats yours reasonably I like capping the river. I will say river check-3 bets are scary.

Nick C · #4 09-06-2005, 04:41 AM

The action is confusing, and I'm not going to be shocked if I see QQ or even 22.

But I think I like a cap.

As for hands, I think BB has at least trip 2's and probably better (the river check/3-bet is a strong move). Twos full with Q2 seems possible. So does 42/74 and, unfortunately, 22.

I'm thinking Button quite likely has 44. He could have QQ instead, but if he's got that, he's capping anyway.

private joker · #5 09-06-2005, 04:42 AM

A couple points:

1) Just like the first response, I missed that it was 6-handed as well. I was 3-tabling, and before I knew it 3-4 guys had sat out, so when I open-limped, I still thought we were 9-10 handed. I agree I missed a raise there.

2) Hand reading comes into play when we think about capping because we're charging button with 2 more cold -- so think about how many times he'll call 2 more (so we win 3BBs when we're ahead) vs. how many times he'll fold (and we win 1BB when ahead, lose 1 when behind). It's sort of going for an overcall if you look at the possible combos of boats that are out there that he could have, and the other hands that would call one more but fold for 2.

toss · #6 09-06-2005, 04:45 AM

I like capping too as QQ is less likely and 22 is even less likely. Other hands that you could be up against include 44, Q4, maybe even the worlds worse slowplayed AA, KK.

Nick C · #7 09-06-2005, 04:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2) Hand reading comes into play when we think about capping because we're charging button with 2 more cold -- so think about how many times he'll call 2 more (so we win 3BBs when we're ahead) vs. how many times he'll fold (and we win 1BB when ahead, lose 1 when behind). It's sort of going for an overcall if you look at the possible combos of boats that are out there that he could have, and the other hands that would call one more but fold for 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought of this, but do you really think Button is folding at this point? He pulled the flop call/turn raise move (which ended up being a 3-bet after BB woke up and you still raised) and then raised the river even after you capped the turn and bet into him again.

I know river check/3-bets are scary, but I'm going to be pretty surprised if Button goes away at this point.

Unless he just called with top pair on the flop, he appears to have a full house (or maybe even quads) right now. I suppose maybe BB's check/3-bet will get Button to take stock and realize his 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], among other things, now loses to any queen.

I kind of doubt that's what he has, though.

mikeyvegas · #8 09-06-2005, 05:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2) Hand reading comes into play when we think about capping because we're charging button with 2 more cold -- so think about how many times he'll call 2 more (so we win 3BBs when we're ahead) vs. how many times he'll fold (and we win 1BB when ahead, lose 1 when behind). It's sort of going for an overcall if you look at the possible combos of boats that are out there that he could have, and the other hands that would call one more but fold for 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts on capping the river:

I lose to only one reasonable hand and the pot is huge. I think at worst 3rd place in this hand is holding trips and will be compelled to call 2 bets after how big the pot got after the turn. With that thinking if you only call, then the button may call and the pot net 2 big bets. If you cap, 5 more big bets go in the pot between BB, button and yourself. I would have to cap. If the turn had been a 9 with the same turn action, I would only call the river 3bet though.

Nick C · #9 09-06-2005, 05:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like capping too as QQ is less likely and 22 is even less likely. Other hands that you could be up against include 44, Q4, maybe even the worlds worse slowplayed AA, KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come to think of it, there is decent chance this is what someone has. (I've been away from Party tables for awhile, which is my excuse for not thinking of this possibility.)

Anyway, then, to return to Private Joker's overcall idea: I doubt someone who's played aces or kings this way will fold now. But who knows?

#10 09-06-2005, 05:19 AM

I would assume Buttons hand to be somehow related to the Q.
If his hand is good on the flop, the only reason not to charge you all for another bet would be to set up a check-raise on the turn. But he bets out on the turn, which seems to indicate thats not the case.

So either he is not thinking, making some sort of play that I really dont understand or being helped by the Q.

His play pf play doesnt indicate QQ, and his plays on the later streets is completely insane with only one pair of Q?
I would guess caught two pairs when the Q came, and maybe boated up on river.

The Button I would expect to be playing another set, unless he is grossly overplaying his cards.