Second pair checkraised on the turn.

[Subfallen]

Two question:

(1) Did you consider 3-betting?

(2) Would you call down with JJ here?

I like a fold here unless you've seen him get tricky before. If the info is worth 2BB then call down, but I think you're beat here way too often to make it correct/standard.

[TStoneMBD]

i think that saying that checking the turn is correct is simply results oriented and rather silly. the turn needs to be bet against a guy that will not bluff the river as jeff said. you cannot give the villain a chance to draw to 6 outs when he would fold, or the chance to miss a bet. the times that you are behind here and get checkraised do not outweigh the value you gain on your bet when ahead.

as for this hand, i call down, but the decision is clearly close. id consider this situation to be almost close to neutral equity, especially since i am not sure which is the correct answer. i think the value of seeing a tags hole cards in a difficult situation turn a neutral situation into a positive one.

[DeeJ]

I fold it, and continue to hate middle pairs.

Probably Jacks I'd call down, Tens, don't know. His pfr hand range has to include Jacks and Tens which probably swings it from a call down to a fold. Does he have 77/88/AK/bluff often enough here? That's a question you can answer better than us [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I know every time I fold to the turn check-raise I wonder 'did he really have it?'

[Nigel]

[ QUOTE ]
I know every time I fold to the turn check-raise I wonder 'did he really have it?'

[/ QUOTE ]

And every time you call down, he probably does. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

What a sick game this is.

[hakeem]

[ QUOTE ]
Checking behind the turn should be a serious consideration here sometimes. The way you played it, i can't see not folding to that c/r, but the added value of always getting to showdown and inducing bluffs/value bets from worse hands than yours is appealing. I know you miss out on value sometimes, you also don't get bown off the pot others.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your action if the river brings an A or K and he bets? I also am inclined to check behind in these situations, as the idea of being blown off the pot with a c/r is too depressing to me vs the potential 6 outter. I'd be happy to check behind and c/c the river here (although I have a harder time if an A or K comes).

[flawless_victory]

i usually go ahead and threebet it here. i must be sick since everyone else is ready to find the muck and cut our losses.

[StacysMom]

Why is everyone focussed on him gripping a Q? JJ/TT seem like very plausible holdings in this case too.

[hakeem]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone focussed on him gripping a Q? JJ/TT seem like very plausible holdings in this case too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which means what, you are advocating a 3bet on the turn?

[DonT77]

Against straight-forward opponents mucking here is fine, but if you think there is any chance of your opponent making this play with anything less than AQ then I'd 3-bet here (rather than calling down) because-

1) You are unlikely to get 4bet here, if so you can safely fold
2) You'll get to the showdown for the same 2 bets as if you called his check-raise and then called again on the river
3) You have a chance to get him to fold a better hand since you've done nothing but show strength throughout the hand.