Two River Crying Call Situations

[Softrock]

Two situations from my trip to Bellagio both involving the "is the pot too big to fold an almost hopeless hand?"

30-60 late at night, one player who's contributing all the action, totally unpredictable guy who sometimes raises with nothing and sometimes surprises you with a big hand. He raises in early position - this could mean anything. Two players cold-call and I call in the BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. $260 in the pot at this point.

Flop is: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I bet out trying to get some feel for where I'm at but also hoping to maybe pick up the pot right then. Unpredictable player calls and next player raises, one fold and then back to me. The raiser is a solid player who has taken alot of beats, and laid down a couple of winners trying to save money. His confidence is shaken. Any way I call. Now $440 in the pot. Turn is the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] giving me the nut straight but of course with three big clubs on board - I'm not liking my hand. I check, unpredictable bets, other player calls, I call somewhat reluctantly. Now $620 in the pot.

River is the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I check, unpredictable bets, next player thinks for quite a bit and then folds. $680 in the pot and $60 to me - four clubs on board, I have no clubs, thinking at best I'm splitting the pot against another Ace. Is this worth a call?

Second situation. 15-30, I've just sat down, post to the left of the button which you can do at Bellagio. Three limpers including the button who's the only player I'm familiar with, who has all the chips and whom I know to generally be rather tight. I check with T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, both blinds fold, young Asian fellow whom I don't know raises, button calls, I re-raise and Asian fellow and button call. $180 in the pot.

Turn is K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check, Asian fellow bets, button calls, I call. Now $270 in the pot. River is a complete blank something like the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I check, Asian player bets, button thinks a bit and calls. $330 in the pot and $30 to me - do I overcall here given 11 to 1?

[Paluka]

These hands might be easier to play if you played them better before the river. In hand 1 you should re-raise preflop. In hand 2 you should bet the turn.

[Robk]

hand 1, is a call that i would make against most players, especially unpredictable ones.

hand 2, i can't fold given that it's my first hand at the table and i don't know anything about the players. even though it's an overcall situation the button played very weak and i think it's less likely than usual he has you beat. you played your hand weird- looking a lot like a draw- so he may be making a crying call here vs the asian gentleman thinking you are out of the picture.

it seems one of us has our judgement off because i would make both these calls without thinking too much. it's probably because i play on the internet though, making my advice maybe out of wack for live games.

[Robk]

please excuse my reply to hand 2: i missed the button description somehow. although i still think what i said almost applies. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[andyfox]

Just a comment about the turn in hand 1: I don't know why you wouldn't like your hand there. Unpredictable is, well, unpredictable and the other guy probably wouldn't raise w h a flush on the flop. I'd have either bet out or check-raised. Why let a small club draw for only one bet?

[Softrock]

Hi Andy - I don't like it because I figure there's a good chance my Ace is only good for half the pot if indeed it's good at all. You may be right about betting out - I'd had alot of success with Mr. Unpredictable by just waiting for my made hands and letting him bet them away for me. However, he also is the sort of person who would not lay down any club in this situation apparently with the thought process of "Hey, I've got a flush draw".