O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?

[tewall]

I have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

There are seven people seeing the flop, everyone limping in, I've the first to act. The flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Cappalletti's is to bet high hands, even if they don't look like they hit, so I bet, although I may be misapplying his advice, since no low is possible on this flop.

Is this a good bet? I need a Q or some kind of runner/runner it looks like. So 3 clean outs, and a couple of more, enough to take a card off, but I don't want to be raised. There's no low possible, so no need to clear out the riff raff.

Is there any good reason to bet here? It looks to me like checking would be better.

(Note: this has is from the early round of a tourney; the stacks don't matter. I'm posting it here because I thought I'd get better feedback as most of the tourney players play hold 'em.)

The ace counts as a low card, so there is a low possibility on this flop (from runner runner). With seven people in the hand there is no way you can bet or even call one with this hand. There's way too many hands (including junk) that should have hit this flop. There aren't many situations in which you can ever bluff first to act seven handed (in any game)...

Jesus christ, fold.

[Buzz]

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Is this a good bet?

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No.

The situation you are describing is not the same as a regular Omaha-8 ring game.

Some of the regular Texas hold 'em players will think any two spades are good here. Some will think QJXY, J8XY, or even 87XY are good hands after this flop. And bad as all those hands are after this flop, they're better than your hand after this flop.

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Is there any good reason to bet here?

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Sure. You could possibly win the pot by betting.

But that's not likely given your description of your opponents.

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It looks to me like checking would be better.

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Yes. If nobody bets and you catch a miracle non-spade queen, you can bet on the next round. More likely somebody will bet this round and then you should fold. (This does not seem a good spot to bluff).

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Better idea. Fold pre-flop (not knowing stakes, position, read on players, etc.).

[Buzz]

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Better idea. Fold pre-flop (not knowing stakes, position, read on players, etc.).

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Niss - Yes. Better idea.

(1) It's a marginal (borderline sub-marginal) hand.
(2) Hero is out of position.

tewall - Position is not as big a deal in limit as in pot-limit, but Hero should not want a raise behind him here and with all high cards, there's a better chance of opponents having the low cards some like to raise with.

twwall - I don't think you're misapplying Cappelletti's advice here. As I read his section on "Driving High in High-Low Omaha" (pages 126-129), he would have you bet this flop.

In my humble opinion, Cappeletti has some good ideas one can incorporate into one's game, but although I've tried to use this particular concept, it doesn't seem as though I've had much success with it.

However, betting without a proper flop fit does disguise your hand and gets you more action when you do have a good fit with the flop. So maybe if you look at the overall picture (all the hands yet to come in the session) you derive some benefit from betting here.

But I agree with Niss that this particular high-only hand, under these particular game conditions, might be better folded pre-flop from early position.

Buzz

[DougShrapnel]

High Hands with a 9 in em suck, well almost all hands with a 9 in em suck. Fold preflop. "Always" bet the flop with a high only hand, when only one or less low cards flops.

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"Always" bet the flop with a high only hand, when only one or less low cards flops.

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Is this a sarcastic comment?

[DougShrapnel]

Nope, SOP that should be adjusted for the table.

Good luck.