I throw myself at the mercy of the MTT forum. Help an old pooh-bah

[whiskeytown]

I can't take it anymore - in the few weeks since I've been off the sauce, I cannot help but accept a simple fact - my MTT game sucks. I cannot make it a winning game - I've studied fairly well, played enough LL games - I have a bit of a problem reading Harrington because of one of those attention deficit issues, but I'm gonna go over him again on the airplane to Reno this weekend.

I'm pretty good at the top 20% - My Weak Tight style of play opening up in the middle works ok - a lot of the times if I get that close I'm in the money but not much past the edge of it.

I'm missing something - some little piece that puts all that together and clicks - I'm thinking of maybe sitting out with a piece of paper and a pen and just making a decision to bluff one out of ten hands I think is unplayable just to do it - try to see a flop or something.

I will devour MLG's and ExitOnly's recent posts with great veracity - but guys - what pushed you that last 20 percent?

I think my biggest problem is I don't think I bet enough - I'm so scared of getting re-raised/bluffed off a hand I'd rather check/call so I know exactly every action how much it'll cost me to do -

I didn't realize it really until I wrote that how much it's in my head - how important it is for me that I need to know how much that next card is gonna cost before I pay to see it -

the idea the price is going up terrifies me - Interestingly enough - some of my greatest tourney successes of the last year before this dry spell I was all in more, probably in an attempt to stave off bluffing -

Or maybe this is a throwback to my limit days where I know that even if I get raised I still know how much it'll be - and without that certainity here, I don't want to bet too much with something like 66 even though it's probably a +EV event over time on a J42 board with one opponent.

Interesting - I'll roll that over in my head but in the meantime - guys - what was that one little spark that pushed you into winning territory - I was sorta there a couple years ago, but I've backslidden into medocrity lately - haven't had a finish over $422 all year according to my records, and that was a live Shootout in Laughlin.

Just not hitting this year, and I know the fields are bigger, but I should still be making the money in 10% of them over time - and I am doing that, but it's not enough and I'm running at a deficit. Can't get a big score at all and can't get a win this year....

phooey.

RB

[ZBTHorton]

I went through the same thing a couple of months ago, and came to the same conclusion that I think you are realizing.

Sometimes, you just have to play more hands.

As we all know, the whole key to getting a 'big cash' is having a big stack. You don't get a big stack by playing 14% of your flops, and checking when your AK misses.

Open up your game. When you call a raise in the blinds, lead it out with less than normal. Steal, steal, steal. Late in tournaments, be one of those guys who pushes almost any two from the button when folded to. Call w/ position with suited connectors, suited one gappers, etc.

I know some people may disagree with some of this stuff, but placing 120th in the 11R doesn't mean crap. I finished 180th in the 40K last night for a profit of 11$. It means nothing. It's all about the big stack. It's all about going deep. It's all about no fear, because if you play scared, you will continue to barely eeek into the money.

Sounds like you are not aggressive enough. The beauty of aggressiveness is, sometimes it can force your opponent off a hand that has you beat. Also, being aggressive and betting gives you information that check calling would never give you, like a range of what hands they might have. If you check call, they can have almost any hand.

Position is also key, raise more from late position to steal the button. Then, if everyone checks to you on the flop, get in the habit of betting even if you don't hit (with some exceptions, if you got a draw and wouldn't mind seeing another card, do that). It is amazing how often you can take down a pot just by putting a bet out there. Also, get good reads on your opponents when playing. If they are loose and very aggressive, let their aggression come out, then trap them with a big raise when you are sure you are probably ahead. If they are passive, then you will have to be the one to take the initiative.

There is alot more to it, but it's a good start. I reccomend jumping into the discussions, and posting hands here, it will seriously help your game out to see where some leaks are that you might not know about.

Good luck!

LL players are terrible at NL MTTs. You can't be super tight at MTTs. But at same time you can't go around calling UTG raises when you have AQo. Read, re-read, and re-read HOH. And play MTTs. And then re-read HOH.

I think personally the biggest problem for many is not so much opening from MP with ATs or whatever. Instead it is calling raises from early position opponents: that is a death wish (if you hold less than AA/KK/QQ and non-pairs less than AK).

Also, the donkeys out there can be frustrating, even though we "win" in the long run because of +EV of our cards (but the long run for MTTs is a long, long, long way away).

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my biggest problem is I don't think I bet enough - I'm so scared of getting re-raised/bluffed off a hand I'd rather check/call so I know exactly every action how much it'll cost me to do -

[/ QUOTE ]

You must be aggressive. Accept that you will bust out of some tournaments, and that you will pick up far more pots and get more out of your edges when you bet.
Courage! All the skill in the world is useless if you do not have the heart to put it to use.

[whiskeytown]

For a while there I was just nailing the 11-16% bracket - just chump change or just shy of the bubble

and I tried to tell myself - "Imagine you're playing this KNOWING you will bubble - so now, knowing that you WILL bubble near the end - how will you play this A4 suited in mid position with 50 players to the money - will you just limp meekly again hoping to flop a flush draw you can push all in on? - or will you try to bet and pick up some blinds for the fight.

That sort of thing - but I've sorta been on hiatus - as winter comes in and I get my PC hooked up to my new 55 inch TV, I'm gonna focus on playing one tournament at time and re-building my reputation.

I think my weak-tight play may have been ok about 3 years ago - not stellar but I did ok in small fields - but I think my luck factor goes way up in larger fields and I need more to compensate for it - Nothing wrong with waiting for a big hand to make money - but if you can't outlast swings of luck - it's no good.

RB

[ QUOTE ]
It's all about no fear, because if you play scared, you will continue to barely eeek into the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. My first 20 or so MTTs, I felt great because I would finish 140th and get into the money and receive $40.

Now, I am often bust before the 4th break because I'm trying to win it, not make $40.

[ZBTHorton]

Remember that the strength of your hands increases late in tournaments. Top pair suddenly becomes more powerful, because more people are bluffing/stealing.

Use that to your advantage. Be the bluffer/stealer. Otherwise, we're all just playin the cards.

It's been said, but it really is all about going for broke rather than just trying to squeak in.. Now when I bust early I'm okay with it because I made a move that could have put me in a good spot..because tournament structures really only favor like the FT.. all the other places just barely get your money back or give you like 20 dollars back for 4 hours work.. so might as well go for it..

In regards to opening up your game, I still recommend tight early/middle.. gap concept all that stuff, then open up late or if you have a bigger stack or when nobody has opened the pot.. lots of stealing late when people are playing uber-tight on the bubble/just past the bubble, just have to find good situations.

All that said, my MTT game sucks too, but will try to get it goin in November.

[KneeCo]

This is just some advice on learning smart NL MTT aggression when you have a Limit background. I won't swear to a lack of aggression being your leak, but that seems to be the prevailing wind.

I think a good way to learn aggression is to play some SNGs.
Try and show a profit over 100 11$ NL SNGs on Party, I think that would help you a lot because doing so requires some aggression. The 2+2 STT forum has some serious talented posters.

Also, while Super/System might help you with your situation, though it should be taken with caution.

And maybe try out the new deep stacks on Stars, the added wiggle room might be a good place to develop some creativity and make you less reluctant to put in some raises.