if God exists outside of time + space...how can? - Page 2

benkahuna · #11 11-22-2005, 11:13 PM

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ok...so it's a common assumption that God has to exist outside of time and space.

we also know that sound is just a whole bunch of waves traveling through the air. it must be that these waves exist within time and space, because it takes time for the waves to travel from one point to another across space.

anyways, if God exists outside of time and space, how could He have spoken to Job?

and please...no God can do whatever he wants because He's God type answers.

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Sorry, that's the answer. There are hints of explanations in modern physics. Our understanding of reality is so limited that there is currently no adequate explanation.

Additionally, you're using what I believe is a simplistic and overly confining definition for G-d.

He doesn't exist outside time and space so much as beyond it. It's the case that as an omnipotent entity time and space do not confine him, not the case that he lies outside those dimensions and cannot interact with them.

Given the many biblical examples of G-d interacting with the material world, it seems pretty clear that he can not only talk to Job, he can talk to anyone.

There's a huge problem with your thinking here. The problem is your attempting to confine an idealist notion within materialist parameters.

You cannot take the rules from one rubric and impose them on a concept (entitty, whatever) from the other rubric. It's just as much as a philosophical mistake as using science to prove the existence of G-d.

In time, what are currently idealist notions may become materialist ones as we come to a greater understanding of the universe. Or perhaps it would be better to say our science will go beyond notions of matter and energy to include other concepts that interact meaningfully with matter and energy. For now, the Mothman concept may apply. The entities we interact with may have as limited an ability to interact with us as we do with ants. We have great power over ants, but their ability to conceptually understand that interaction appears to be limited or nonexistent.

It's one of those things that you can choose to understand or adopt pedantic notions to cause trouble.

bobman0330 · #12 11-23-2005, 04:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ok...so it's a common assumption that God has to exist outside of time and space.

we also know that sound is just a whole bunch of waves traveling through the air. it must be that these waves exist within time and space, because it takes time for the waves to travel from one point to another across space.

anyways, if God exists outside of time and space, how could He have spoken to Job?

and please...no God can do whatever he wants because He's God type answers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your question is essentially how can God do anything in a world limited by time and space. Which is more an unanswerable question about just what it means to exist outside of space and time.

DougShrapnel · #13 11-23-2005, 04:04 AM

I like this question, because it states two important aspects. God can have no dealing with this world, and it seems to be the case that he doesn't have any dealing with this world.

Piers · #14 11-23-2005, 01:08 PM

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and please...no God can do whatever he wants because He's God type answers.

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It rather distracts from the quality of the topic when you outlaw the most natural way of answering the question.

The only other possablity I can think of is that it happened by some mechanism thats beyond our understanding.

PrayingMantis · #15 11-23-2005, 04:29 PM

Why everybody here is so obsessed with this god? Does he exist, does he not exist, in time, out of time, blah blah blah. Seriously, I just don't get it. Forget about this god already, trust me, it will all be good. Just stop thinking about it! Nothing will change.

RJT · #16 11-23-2005, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why everybody here is so obsessed with this god? Does he exist, does he not exist, in time, out of time, blah blah blah. Seriously, I just don't get it. Forget about this god already, trust me, it will all be good. Just stop thinking about it! Nothing will change.

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Aw, come on PM,

Don’t pretend you have more of a life than then rest of us. Where do you have more fun on the net?

RJT

p.s. Besides the new tabloids don’t come out until Saturdays.

PrayingMantis · #17 11-23-2005, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Aw, come on PM,

Don’t pretend you have more of a life than then rest of us. Where do you have more fun on the net?

RJT

p.s. Besides the new tabloids don’t come out until Saturdays.

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lol, well i'm not sure about who's having more life... certainly, at the exact moment when one is actually posting on the internet, he doesn't have more of a life than anyone else who's posting or reading posts at the same time, i'll give you that.

About the obsession with god, it's true regardless. I think it's like a fashion that is lasting too long. At least change gods or something. There were so many really really cool ones, why get stuck with this particular one? I don't quite get it. The same old questions, same old "answers". very tedious stuff, IMHO.

And I don't mean to "mock god" or something by saying this. Seriously I don't. Even mocking him is boring.

RJT · #18 11-23-2005, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Aw, come on PM,

Don’t pretend you have more of a life than then rest of us. Where do you have more fun on the net?

RJT

p.s. Besides the new tabloids don’t come out until Saturdays.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, well i'm not sure about who's having more life... certainly, at the exact moment when one is actually posting on the internet, he doesn't have more of a life than anyone else who's posting or reading posts at the same time, i'll give you that.

About the obsession with god, it's true regardless. I think it's like a fashion that is lasting too long. At least change gods or something. There were so many really really cool ones, why get stuck with this particular one? I don't quite get it. The same old questions, same old "answers". very tedious stuff, IMHO.

And I don't mean to "mock god" or something by saying this. Seriously I don't. Even mocking him is boring.

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Oh, I know what you are saying. And I am not disagreeing. Come up with a good post and I’ll get in on it. I always try to think of new topics. I had a good one a few days ago, but I forgot what it was - -lol. Actually, I think I did have one in mind. Just can’t recall now what it was. If it was good I’ll remember it and post.

hypermegachi · #19 11-23-2005, 08:05 PM

thanks for all the replies! i don't know who to reply to, so i'll just reply to myself.

yeh i know i kinda screwed up all answers with the no using omnipotence rule. but it starts to get annoying when that starts to answer everything.

but like others have said, it's the only answer since we are still trying to define the undefinable, and that will always be the problem.

actually, i came up with this idea when someone else on the forum posted in another thread about how all the praying is useless considering God cannot intervene.

Allinlife · #20 11-23-2005, 11:25 PM

how about this explanation hyper- not really an athieist or christian.. i'm still in deciding process.

I think this is a decent anology
assume you are an ant leaving in nearly flat 2d- container
would you ever understand 3D if you never experienced it? would the ant ever understand if you traveled via 3D (over the container) to traven 1 end of container to next? probably not.

now remember that time is the 4th dimension, and if you exist out side this dimension..you should be able to enter/exit the dimensions as you wish.

it's just how I think it works...

so if we are to extract the ant, and let it experience