A9s missed flop

buhler26 · #1 06-30-2005, 08:23 AM

Anyone like the flop raise or should I have dropped it?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP1 3-bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (10.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

milesdyson · #2 06-30-2005, 08:27 AM

any reads?

i would call almost closing the action getting 13.5:1. if i don't improve on the turn, i'm out. i could also be out if i improve but it's 2 bets to me (position is great).

you have ace high and no backdoor draws (the wheel is weak), so a free card won't really do much for you, and you probably won't get it.

folding this flop wouldn't be bad either. i think calling is just a tad better than folding, and they're both a lot better than raising.

Fantam · #3 06-30-2005, 08:42 AM

I would fold this hand on the flop.

The board is very coordinated. You only have overcards and no backdoor draws.

The A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] could complete a flush draw for someone else.

You could also be reverse dominated by someone with A4 or A5 and lots of weak players like to play Ax hands.

There are also possible straight draws and someone could already have a set.

Your hand is probably worth no more than about 3 outs, and you still have players to act after you. If UTG had a strong hand he could be attempting a check-raise.

So even though there were 13.5 sb in the pot, I think your hand was devalued so that a flop call was not worthwhile.

Duerig · #4 06-30-2005, 08:53 AM

I really dislike the flop raise. You aren't going to fold anyone out, and you don't want to build a huge pot with your ace high.

@bsolute_luck · #5 06-30-2005, 08:57 AM

IMO, your hand is definitely worth a call on the flop, but too weak for a raise. and the value of your hand will change a lot on the turn. MP1 could easily have a smaller pocket pair, a pair of 4s, or weakly played overcards + flush draw. the pot is too big to fold assuming you're behind. reads would help regarding whether he has trips on the flop or not, but obviously by the turn check, he doesn't.

like miles said: bet into on the turn UI, fold.

turaho · #6 06-30-2005, 09:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You could also be reverse dominated by someone with A4 or A5 and lots of weak players like to play Ax hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to point out a hidden out: you're not reverse dominated by A4. Another A would give the villain the fish's favorite, three pair.

swatkaizen · #7 06-30-2005, 10:26 AM

I've been messing around with pokerstove some, so if I misuse it someone please correct me but ...

If you put in this situation with 4 players playing the top 20%, you have HALF the pot equity of any other player (22% 4 players each : 11% you). If the other 4 players are loose (top 40%), you have (21% 4 players each : 14% you). So most of the time, you should fold in this situation.