Set on a Coordinated Flop

[pokerstudAA]

If we agree that the 77 is only good for set value then would the standard play here in the SB to call this raise with any PP 22+?

[bcunha]

Cap the flop and bet the turn. But since you called the 3-bet on the flop, check-raise the turn.

[lil']

I wouldn't fold any pocket pair in that spot, and obviously I re-raise with the pretty ones (maybe 10-10 and up).

[MRBAA]

I think the idea of folding preflop here because you aren't quite getting odds is really misquided. The good players, like colgin, who post here generally have plenty of edge to want to mix it up a bit -- especially against loose opponents who will give action when you hit. Notice that he in fact won about 11.5bb here (I've subtracted the bets he put in) -- that's almost a 50% overlay on the odds of flopping a set.

[gaming_mouse]

If you don't cap the flop, I think you need to c/r the turn -- unless you think there's a chance it gets checked thru, which I don't think there is.

But the bet out on the turn seems inconsistent w/ the smooth call on the flop.

Having said that, I think capping the flop is the safest thing to do.

[johnc]

I agree with folding pf, esp out of position. That being said, cap the flop no doubt. Seriously consider c/r the turn. The looseness/aggression so far lessens the likelyhood of checking behind and getting extra BBs is worth the tiny risk.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the idea of folding preflop here because you aren't quite getting odds is really misquided. The good players, like colgin, who post here generally have plenty of edge to want to mix it up a bit -- especially against loose opponents who will give action when you hit. Notice that he in fact won about 11.5bb here (I've subtracted the bets he put in) -- that's almost a 50% overlay on the odds of flopping a set.


[/ QUOTE ]
And that's with 1 BB missed on the flop. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[lu_hawk]

flop call is better than capping because a cap will instantly shut everyone down most of the time. i know draws will still call but better to get extra bets in on the turn than on the flop.

the turn bet is good because there is a very good chance you get raised again. checking with the intention of c/r'ing an mp3 bet is not good but if you think mp2 will bet again then you might want to go for it.

[colgin]

It is interesting that there has been discussion of the pre-flop semi-cold call as I did not even think that merited mention. Still, it is good for these things to get hashed out here now and again. My view is that the pre-flop call is fine and it's not even close. Let me tell you all that the one major leak I identified in my pre-flop game about four months ago was not playing pocket pairs enough. I was folding too often in early position and not cold-calling enough in later positions with my small to medium pocket pairs. I guess my sample size is still too small but I have seen definite positive results since I tried to find every excuse possibleto play a pocet pair. (Of course I still find a few folds now and again.) BTW, I have to thank Joe Tall and sfer for helping me identify and fix this problem.

My initial flop plan had been to lead into the field (which I did) and then, after everyone, called, re-raise a late position raise from MP3. On this coordinated a flop my pot equity probably was not as high as one would like with a set but still likely pretty good. So I would ram and jam and either get outdrawn (assuming I was ahead) or not.

However, when it was raised and three-bet after me I thought two things. One, my pot equity might not be as good as I had hoped. Two, capping here might knock out someone like UTG who is likely drawing dead or close to it. Nobody I would like to fold will do so but a player I would liek to trap for more bets might find a fold. While it might get capped regardless, I thought it better to try to keep everyone in and see whatthe turn brought. With a lot of bad possible cards and a few terrible ones that could appear, I thought my pot equity would significantly increase or decrease with the next card. Also, calling has the advantage of giving me a lot of flexibility on how to play the turn since i have not given away my hand at all (not that that may matter much here).

When I made my boat on the turn I chose to bet out (with the hope I may get to re-raise) rather than check-raise for a few reasons. One, I thought it could get checked through. MP2 could be on a draw and want a free card and MP3 could have been overplaying overcards. That would be a disaster. Two, I was hoping the pot was now large enough that everyone felt compelled to at least call one more bet. Three (and related to Two), I didn't want to shut out potentially the field if it got checked to MP3 and he bet.

The problem is that I have played my hand consistent with trip 8s so if MP3 is smart it is pretty easy for him to get away from an overpair here. Anyway, we won't know what he folded.

Results: MP2 had 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and MHIG. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[buhler26]

I would attempt to check-raise the flop, with the raiser on your right, to charge those draws as much as you can. I would cap the flop, just like everyone else said.