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Old 10-08-2003, 04:27 PM
any2cards any2cards is offline
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Default Canterbury Fall Classic - A Hand to Discuss

This hand occurred yesterday night in Canterbury's $200 NLHE Fall Classic tournament. All players start with T1000 in chips. The hand occurred during the 3rd level. Blinds were T25-T50. All players at the table had between T500-T3500 in stacks.

UTG limps, MP limps, cutoff limps, and I, with the button, limp with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Amazingly, the SB folds for 1 chip.

Then, in an odd twist, the BB raises T50?!!! Everyone calls. The dealer burns, but before he places the flop on the table, the BB pushed all-in for T500. The BB did not see any of the flop cards before doing this.

The flop comes up A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

All fold to the button who goes into deep thought. The decision actually took around 30-45 seconds. As the button was considering his play, I was trying to put the BB on a hand that he would pre-flop raise only T50 (with 4 limpers), and then bet all-in for T500 without seeing the flop. I just couldn't come up with much that would call for only a T50 pre-flop raise, and then all-in before seeing the flop. It made absolutely no sense.

In addition, I was trying to put the button on a range of hands that required so much thought. Given his previous play, I figured that if he had a King, he would have called without much hestitation since he was chip leader. Therefore, I decided he must have a hand which included one of the remaining two aces.

The button eventually called. I figured he had to have at least an ace. In the best world, the BB had a hand like 10 10, JJ, or QQ. If the button only has an ace, I still don't like my kicker much, and I even though I had T2000 in chips, I didn't want to mess with the chip leader. I folded.

The dealer asked for the hands to be shown. Much to my surprise, the button displayed K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for three Kings. The BB showed A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for Aces full.

The table exploded when the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hit the river.

If you were the BB, how would you have played this hand? I do not like the T50 pre-flop raise with 4 limpers. That kind of raise is simply not going to eliminate anyone. Further, if you are willing to push all of you chips in prior to seeing the flop as the BB did, then why not just raise all-in pre-flop?

In fact, if he would have waited for the flop to be exposed, and then either bet out all-in, or check-raised all-in, I suspect the button may have folded.

I will be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this hand.
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2003, 07:11 PM
Bozeman Bozeman is offline
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Default Re: Canterbury Fall Classic - A Hand to Discuss

What is your position? You say early that you have the button, but later you act after the button?

The BB's thinking must have been: I'm gonna win, so get more money in the pot, and on the flop, people who hit may call me who wouldn't have called a big raise PF.
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Old 10-08-2003, 09:25 PM
any2cards any2cards is offline
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Default Re: Canterbury Fall Classic - A Hand to Discuss

My apologies. The phrase "All fold to the button who goes into deep thought" should have read "All fold to the cutoff who goes into deep thought".
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Old 10-08-2003, 09:46 PM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: Canterbury Fall Classic - A Hand to Discuss

I ordinarily make a pot-sized raise once there have been several limpers. Since this would have been just about half of my stack, I would push in before the flop.

After considering this weighty matter, I think that the cut-off, or whoever really had K6, should muck the flop. I mean, if you really think that someone would make that kind of a play with QQ or lower, then call. I don't see anyone doing this with anything other than Aces. Even if BB is getting out of line with AK, he can't beat that either. I probably would have called in the heat of battle, but from the relative comfort of my living room, it seems like a fold to me.

I've made some dark bets before, but not in a NL tournament.

You did have an easy fold on the flop, I think.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2003, 12:29 AM
Vehn Vehn is offline
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Default Re: Canterbury Fall Classic - A Hand to Discuss

I don't see why the BB's preflop play is that terrible. He doesn't want people to fold, he wants to build the biggest pot he can before the flop with the nuts and a short stack.
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