15-30 Hand To Discuss (Long)

[Big Dave D]

In general, in the situation u described, the BB had checked the flop so he could check raise the last preflop raiser. He's bet out on the turn, when an unhelpful card appeared (after all, its hard for him to be betting the flush too) because he doesnt want to give another free card.

[frizzfreeling]

With Ax suited, I do not see a profitable play calling two bets cold, no matter how many are in the pot with you. Although this hand is great for a loose passive game, you are destroying your implied odds when calling a raise, and this is the type of hand that relies on implied odds to make money. A good time to play this hand is in an unraised pot where a few players are already in and you expect at least 5 to the flop. Get in cheap!
On the flop, I think your check was excellent. With a tight group it may be correct to bet hoping to steal the pot, but it will almost never work in a loose passive game such as yours especially with 4 opponents on the flop. So, why not take a free card?
On the turn, a call would probably worked better. The BB and MP are surely not going to both fold and you are also looking at a possible reraise from the BB, who may have been hoping for a check raise on the flop, which didnt turn out. What are the chances that neither player have nothing worth one more bet?
I dont see any real problem with your river raise although I think I may have just called here as well, since he is showing strength by betting after you raised him. There are just too many hands that he could have that could beat you, and very few that wont. You were really looking for a flush card here to cinch things up. Although the ace looks good, its really not that hot in this situation.
Im definitely not advocating being a calling station. But in this hand there was way too much that could go wrong. A lot of my advice for calling has to do with you mentioning that your opponents were pretty loose. In a tight game it could be played a lot different.

[Cosimo]

A5s is a tricky hand; even if an Ace hits the flop you're in a poor spot. I'd still call two cold preflop, though.

The two straightforward players might have had connectors or a couple high cards, which makes this a moderate flop for them. BB or UTG+1 could be trying something tricky, or maybe they just missed the flop. The flop barely hit you here, but you have no idea how hard it hit these two. I think this is the best time to find out; bet it, and see what happens. You really had no read on these guys as it was.

I think I would have called the turn; I'm somewhere between weak-tight and loose-passive, so take this with a grain of salt. I would have put the SB on a ten plus an ace or connector; ie he's decided to bet out the second-best hand (since the best isn't out there), before the flush draw gets a chance to complete.

I would never have guessed that the SB had missed a check-raise on the flop, which is part of why I'm posting. I think, because of that, if you are going to stay with the A5 then you need to bet on the flop. If everybody is weak and the turn doesn't help, then you get a free card. If someone is slowplaying (only thing to slowplay here is TT or JJ), they might call the flop bet then try to check-raise the expensive bets--giving you a free card again. Top pair or two pair might check-raise the flop, then bet out on the turn. Given the small number of outs, I think you are better off getting a free card and/or some information rather than risking an expensive bet on a pair of fives.

-Cosimo

Small suited AX is iffy to call a raise but in this situation with 2 cold-callers before you, I would have called too.

On the flop, I feel checking is correct too as I'll be leery of a bottom pair albeit an overcard and a BDF.

With an unknown BB betting out on the turn on a 2, I would be asking myself how would it help him? He called a PF bet and if he is somewhat of a decent player it's unlikely he has a JX, TX or similar hand - probably JT or a set. I would have just called.

The fact that you raised, and he still led out on the river with the scary A, I think your raise was too aggressive.

He outplayed you in this hand and you fell for it. Next deal. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]