Flop raise with overs

istewart · #1 12-08-2005, 01:24 PM

Hey,

I feel like this is something I very rarely do, and that this may be a mistake (raising with UI overcards). So while I haven't been going lagtastic on the flop everytime I get AK I've been looking for spots where it could be superior to calling (or folding).

Is this standard? Bad? Tell me what you think.

Villain was 43/3/1.5 over 250 hands and had been donkbetting flops fairly frequently if I recall correctly, with both complete crap (gutshots, overcards) and decent hands.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero raises

car ramrod · #2 12-08-2005, 01:27 PM

I like the raise, co could be betting [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s, you get to face the others with 2, I like to get this hu vs co. You still have 2 overs, plus a bdfd and a bdsd.

Raising w/ ui overs is not always correct, but I like it here.

spydog · #3 12-08-2005, 01:31 PM

In a loose passive game like 1/2, I would just call this flop and hope that I improve on the turn.

I don't mind the raise if you think that CO won't 3-bet and won't donk the turn. If it's going to get you to showdown for no more bets, then it's OK.

krimson · #4 12-08-2005, 01:39 PM

As long as this isn't your "standard" play I think it's okay. The pot is right about the correct size that it's worth winning but not so big that your raise is totally useless (nobody folds).

I think you clear some outs here and possibly get a free turn.

#5 12-08-2005, 01:44 PM

I think this is yucky. I would call and re-evaluate on the turn.

#6 12-08-2005, 03:34 PM

I like it with the bd draws and the opp to get this HU. Without the draws, I would more likely call, unless I really wanted to get it HU with the bettor.

Spicymoose · #7 12-08-2005, 03:38 PM

This is fine, but only because you got yourself into the percect situation. He bets a lot of flops, so you have him beat a bunch. Furthermore, you get to force the other 2 villains into a rough situation, and may get them to fold better hands. On top of the fact that you have 2 overs, 2 backdoor draws, and a 9 SB pot. You also get a free card often if you want it. I don't think you can play this any other way here.

BigBrother · #8 12-08-2005, 04:30 PM

You have noted what I think is an almost ideal situation for raising the flop with overcards in position.

Your hand is stronger than normal due to your backdoor draws. You have position and your raise can clear up outs, plus give you the possibility of a free card (most likely you will want to take the free card if you get it, since a diamond draw won't fold anyway).

#9 12-08-2005, 05:38 PM

I think this flop raise is definitely good if you think you will get a free card. We must resist the urge to be on 4th street while more than likely behind. I'm probably 50/50 if a spade comes, but I still think we should take the free card.

Spicymoose · #10 12-08-2005, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
plus give you the possibility of a free card (most likely you will want to take the free card if you get it, since a diamond draw won't fold anyway).

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any sense. If we knew he was on a flush draw, we definetly would want to bet. I will probably usually take the free card, but it depends on the rest of the flop action.