KQ flops trips against laggy PF raiser

KSOT · #1 12-06-2005, 01:08 AM

How does this line look?

MP2 is 56/18/2.2

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG folds.

River: (8.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

I strongly considered raising the turn, but decided not to for whatever reason. Thoughts?

milesdyson · #2 12-06-2005, 01:10 AM

3-bet preflop. start raising on the flop. you do not want BB and UTG to see cheap turns with QJ/QT/JT, and you do want to get bets in with a great hand.

#3 12-06-2005, 01:14 AM

Is this 3 bet strictly to isolate? I understand if it is suited, but offsuit don't we run a high risk of being dominated even by a laggy raiser?

KSOT · #4 12-06-2005, 01:16 AM

Yeah, I almost folded pre-flop. Lags have a tendancy to have me dominated at all the wrong times.

MrWookie47 · #5 12-06-2005, 01:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this 3 bet strictly to isolate? I understand if it is suited, but offsuit don't we run a high risk of being dominated even by a laggy raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

s00ted doesn't make you all that much less dominated.

milesdyson · #6 12-06-2005, 01:18 AM

the 3-bet is to get this heads up or 3-way and to win the pot when we both miss. say he has an ace and the flop is J95. if he holds A6/A7/A8/AT he will have a hard time continuing.

3-betting is surely better than coldcalling, which in my opinion is the -EV option. folding is 0 EV, and reraising is probably just a little bit on the positive side.

SCfuji · #7 12-06-2005, 01:19 AM

hey ksot

how loose of a raiser is the villain? if hes a normal lag you need to be 3 betting to isolate here on the button. since you didnt you need to raise that flop and go jam-happy. since you didnt do that either you need to raise the turn. since you hate money you can now go light your wallet on fire.

#8 12-06-2005, 01:22 AM

No, but you'll hit a flush about the same % of time that he'll have you dominated.

#9 12-06-2005, 01:25 AM

If the pfr'er donk bets us on the J95 flop you are raising it and folding to a 3 bet?

KSOT · #10 12-06-2005, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hey ksot

how loose of a raiser is the villain? if hes a normal lag you need to be 3 betting to isolate here on the button. since you didnt you need to raise that flop and go jam-happy. since you didnt do that either you need to raise the turn. since you hate money you can now go light your wallet on fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wanted BB and UTG to stay in there. I was pretty sure they're were just calling because villain had been raising constantly and their turn folds seem to confirm that. Even if they had gutshot draws, is that so terrible? I don't mind someone putting in a big bet for a gut shot draw in a pot that I'm very likely to win.

Fact of the matter is I built a MUCH bigger pot playing it the way I did, than if I'd jammed the flop and turn. It was a small gamble, but is it really such a bad thing?