Two easy Q about live rules...

[bigredlemon]

Suppose a player verbally announces "raises" but not a specific amount in a NL game, stacks up 5BB worth of chips, and hands it down onto the middle of the felt without letting go. The chips are firmly rested onto the felt by the player's hands still holds on in the same position as if he were about to shuffle his chips. A second player then announces raise. Can the first player still take back chips and make it a min raise?

Scenario 2:
All folded around to SB, who is chatting and generally unaware it's his turn. The BB thinks it's all folded to him and mucks without being prompted to do so. What now?

[Photoc]

Part 1: Depends on the rules of the house. In most houses without a betting line, the following is correct. Chps RELEASED are a bet. If it's a betting line, then anything in your hand that passes the line "may" be a bet (house dependant).

The second player is a douche for not waiting for HIS TURN, since it is still the other players turn. The first player may now make whatever bet he wants, and the second player MUST make the minimum raise, or more, on top of that since he announced an action but not an amount.

Part 2: SB may ask to chop in most joints, sometimes its generally accepted of a chop. But the floor should be called, and the SB will have the option to call the bet (why he/she wouldn't is beyond me) and then the pot will be awarded to the SB since the BB mucked. It's the player's responsibility to pay attention to the action and protect their cards. Again, a douche for not paying attention/protecting his/her cards. The SB shouldn't suffer because the BB wants to chat away and not play the game.

[MicroBob]

you're correct of course. but it was the SB who was chatting away and not aware that it's his turn.
So evidently he was the one who was sitting there chatting and the BB idiotically didn't notice that the SB hadn't done anything with his cards.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

In part 2, the SB should instantly raise if he has any sense at all!
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

al

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
The second player is a douche for not waiting for HIS TURN, since it is still the other players turn. The first player may now make whatever bet he wants, and the second player MUST make the minimum raise, or more, on top of that since he announced an action but not an amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought out-of-turn verbal declarations weren't binding.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The second player is a douche for not waiting for HIS TURN, since it is still the other players turn. The first player may now make whatever bet he wants, and the second player MUST make the minimum raise, or more, on top of that since he announced an action but not an amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought out-of-turn verbal declarations weren't binding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Action out of turn MAY be binding.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Action out of turn MAY be binding.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I stand corrected.

Supposing Player 1 decides to change her bet or raise to some exorbitant amount, with the intention of forcing Player 2 to [re]raise on top of that, would there be any reason for the floor to enforce Player 2's verbal declaration? Putting in a single stack but not releasing it, as posited in the OP, then deciding to push all in after Player 2 announces a raise would appear to be a blatant angle shoot by P1, no?