9th Circuit Decision Regarding Children and Sex

[BCPVP]

How do any parents here feel about this?
The story is from the WND (for those who need to screen their info). Here's the opinion on the case. I've only briefly read the opinion, but it seems incredible...

[BCPVP]

I'm not even sure if it's the court that I disagree with. I think the school definitely has some splainin' to do. The method with which they snuck this in seems underhanded to say the least. On the consent form, if they'd said: "The goal of this assessment is to establish a community baseline measure of children’s exposure to early trauma (for example, sex)." (as opposed to violence) I don't think near as many parents would have consented.

So...why not a poll?

[jt1]

I believe that schools should abide by the morals and principles of the community in which they reside. Let the parents of that school district decide what is appropriate and leave it out of the courts.

What if a school conducted a survey about how often kids think about watching TV? Should a parent have the right to sue the school over that survey? I would say no, but that parent should have the right to bring the issue up in a PTA or school board meeting, and to force a vote on the matter.

[New001]

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There is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children.

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I agree with this entirely. I also think the survey was a stupid idea, but the worst it could do in my eyes would be to force a child's parents to actually explain sex to him/her. Is that such a bad thing?

[BCPVP]

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I believe that schools should abide by the morals and principles of the community in which they reside. Let the parents of that school district decide what is appropriate and leave it out of the courts.

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In general, I agree.

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What if a school conducted a survey about how often kids think about watching TV?

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This is not even close to comparable.

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Should a parent have the right to sue the school over that survey?

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I think they have the right to sue. Doesn't mean they are in the right.

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that parent should have the right to bring the issue up in a PTA or school board meeting, and to force a vote on the matter.

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I agree. The one thing I worry about is the slippery slope. At what point does parental objection overrule the state? Or can the state "teach" children anything it wants and be free from any redress? If the state wanted to teach kids exactly how to have safe sex and had them pair up and [censored] each other, wouldn't parents have no right to object to their kids doing this under this decision? Where's the line?

[mmcd]

Refreshingly enough, you're consistant in your logic between this thread and the other one. I was expecting you to tear into the court here.

As for what the school did, I think it was clearly wrong in the case of the 1st and 3rd graders, but not as bad for the 5th graders. I can't remember that far back with any degree of certainty, but I think it was probably around 5th grade when my elementary school had it's first sex education classes (they didn't hand out condoms or anything like that) and I don't think there is anything wrong with broaching the subject of sex with kids that age as this is around when puberty starts, but I think with the 1st and 3rd graders perhaps a redacted version of the survey should have been given. I can imagine the uncomfortable dinner table conversations that followed, "So, what did you do at school today?"

[BCPVP]

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but the worst it could do in my eyes would be to force a child's parents to actually explain sex to him/her. Is that such a bad thing?

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Shouldn't that time and place be up to the parents and not the state? This survey was given to 1st graders. Why not kindergarteners? Pre-schoolers?

[BCPVP]

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Refreshingly enough, you're consistant in your logic between this thread and the other one. I was expecting you to tear into the court here.

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To tell you the truth, tearing into the decision was my gut reaction. But then I thought about it a little and decided that this was one of those things I'd prefer the courts stay out of because they would have to make such a decision. But I do try to stay consistent.

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As for what the school did, I think it was clearly wrong in the case of the 1st and 3rd graders, but not as bad for the 5th graders.

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Sort of my feeling as well. 5-6th grade was about when I got "The Talk". But I think how the school got this through is the real outrage. The school was not very upfront about what would be discussed in the survey and I can understand the parents' outrage. If anything, maybe it will encourage a little more attention during PTA/school board meetings/elections, which I suppose is a good thing.

[New001]

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but the worst it could do in my eyes would be to force a child's parents to actually explain sex to him/her. Is that such a bad thing?

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Shouldn't that time and place be up to the parents and not the state? This survey was given to 1st graders. Why not kindergarteners? Pre-schoolers?

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It should be up to them, yes, in an ideal world. Parents can't control everything their children get access to though, and they're kidding themselves if they think they can. It shouldn't harm the kid, and it might make him and his parents uncomfortable about it, but meh. I know I was in first grade when I first heard about those "baginas" from a friend of mine, and I wasn't scarred or traumatized by it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rationalize the survey (which I think was clearly stupid), but it's really not as harmful as some people have been making it out to be. My opinion, of course.

[jt1]

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Quote:
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What if a school conducted a survey about how often kids think about watching TV?


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This is not even close to comparable.


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No, sex and TV aren't comparable but constitutionaly sex isn't any different from TV. This is a constitutional case and sex isn't even mentioned in that document (though it may be mentioned in federal law and/or previous precedent...i have no idea) so a jurist would have no choice but to rule that if schools can teach and ask about TV or chocolate or smelly socks then they can do the same regarding sex.

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At what point does parental objection overrule the state? Or can the state "teach" children anything it wants and be free from any redress? If the state wanted to teach kids exactly how to have safe sex and had them pair up and [censored] each other, wouldn't parents have no right to object to their kids doing this under this decision? Where's the line?

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Well, here, the analogy doesn't take into account that non-consenting sex is a crime. Schools cant force students to commit crimes as that would violate civil liberties.