what makes a republican/Democrat

[jt1]

Republicans:

1) free market gurus (liberals)
2) Christian conservatives (conservatives)
3) Nationalists (conservatives)
4) Major corporations (non-idealistic, self interested)

The free market gurus believe strongly that the best way to gurantee equal opportunity for all is a totally a free market. Many of these people also believe in social freedom and could care less about America's position of power in the world.

The conservative Christians and the Nationalists group are very similar. The only difference is that the former worship Christ first and America second while the latter worship America first and Christ second. These people believe that America is Good and is destined to be the worlds lone superpower. It is our duty as Americans to insure that destiny is fulfilled.

Democrats:

1)Labor Unions (non idealistic, self interested)
2)Urban activist (half liberal and half conservative)
3)social libertarians (liberal)
4)Enviromental groups (anti-conservative but not exactly liberal, there members are probably social libertarians, however)

Most of these groups are self explanatory, especially if you read my earlier post which explains what it means to be liberal and conservative and how many urban activist or only half liberal. Enviromentalist are interesting because they aren't liberal but just anti-corporation and anti-nationalists. I do feel, however, that most enviromentalists are also social libertarians.

I find this interesting that you can be a Republican and hate the conservative christians and nationalists, being pro-corporation and anti-labor. And you can be a Democrat that believes that America is a Christian nation destined by God to be the worlds lone super power.

[El Barto]

In both of your threads, I find your categorizations a bit too haphazard and non-definite. If this stuff interests you, go to websites with a test to place you on the political spectrum, and study the questions instead of answering them (ask for each question, which position would each of the parties take on this issue?)

Some sites to try:

http://politicalcompass.org/

http://www.okcupid.com/politics

and you can find more.

You can get a good overview of the set of issues that define the differences between the parties, as well as those issues that find both support and opposition within both parties.

[jt1]

Perhaps you found the definitions too non-definite because I tried to show how some Republicans are more liberal than some Democrats and vice versa. That may seem counter intuitive when our media insists on labeling Democrats as the liberal party and Republicans as the conservative one. I find that categorization to completely mislead the public. You can't find out where you are on the political spectrum if the spectrum isn't properly defined. And you can't think clearly about the issues without understanding the political spectrum.

FWIW, I studied one of your links. I'm already well aware of how the parties operate. Money and imperfect ideological alliances bind the parties together. Democrats can't win without labor and the enviromentalist yet labor could care less about the enviroment and vice versa. Most political gays are Democrats, but many in the urban activist wing of the Democratic party think homosexuality is a sin. But they have to live together politically, because, neither of them are represented at all by the Republicans. The Republican party is much the same way. Their tent is smaller but you have Jack Kemp on one wing who probably completely disagrees with everything Cheney stands for. Yet they are both Republican because the Democrats have no room for Kemp.

FWIW, your link does provide a usable political spectrum. But I think there should be a place for enviromental concerns. Even free market gurus like Kemp recognize that the free market cannot possibly regulate the environment: there is no economic incentive to do so. (Quota trading tries to remedy this but right next to my house there is open land, more arid than the month of August, that due to quota trading is technically a wetland) As I mentioned in my latter post, environmental issues seem to have their own sphere outside of liberal and conservatism. For example many environmentalist condemn the use of DDT by third world countries. DDT kills vegetation but also kills malaria insects. Malaria is probably the 2nd biggest reason why Africa and SouthEast Asia are so impoverished.

My definitions may seem haphazard, but they are not. The political spectrum is complicated and the American political landscape even more so. I showed how social liberals can disagree with each other on issues like guns and abortion. If social liberals sometimes disagree with each other then you can see how social liberals will quite often disagree with 'economic mobility' liberals. Then add labor and enviromentalist to the mix and you see how the saying, the democratic senator from so and so really means nothing at all.

As a free market advocate, I don't believe that the media has a obligation to educate the public, but I do believe that the public would appreciate a media source that didn't label a politician as being conservative or liberal, democrat or republican. There are different types of liberals/conservative and different types of Republicans/democrats. I think the the public would appreciate a media source that concisely labeled those differences.

We should start a thread for people to post their results of those tests. Here's mine:

[ QUOTE ]
You are a

Social Liberal
(75% permissive)

and an...

Economic Moderate
(55% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Democrat


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (93, 18)
modscore: (33, 45)
raw: (3142)

[/ QUOTE ]

And the "Political Compass" had me at:

[ QUOTE ]
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

[/ QUOTE ]

... close to Gandhi. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
... close to Gandhi. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that they have gandhi in the wrong spot.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... close to Gandhi. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that they have gandhi in the wrong spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should let them know that.

[tylerdurden]

Mine:



[ QUOTE ]
You are a Social Liberal (83% permissive) and an... Economic Conservative (95% permissive). You are best described as a: Anarchist. You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jt1]

I am 80% on both scales and classified as Libertarian. Pretty accurate except that is says that I have a clear distinction between right and wrong which I don't believe is the case.

You Unabomber types scare me. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[lehighguy]

Money and Power