Guns, Smoking, Drinking, and Sex

[BCPVP]

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Maybe the parents should just have a healthy talk about the birds and the bees with their kids, and the government should [censored] off.

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Of all the responses, I like this one the best. It seems like the most consistent if you're not going to have the government mandate education in drinking and shooting.

[BCPVP]

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What? How many people die a year from tobacco?

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I would venture a guess that most people who die from smoking were exposed to that hazard for a long span of time. Think of it this way: which has a greater risk smoking one cigarette or having sex with one HIV pos. person?

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Since two kids that want to screw are going to do it regardless might as well tell them the safest way to do it. Telling them not to have sex, or making a law, won't help a goddamn thing.

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You're missing the point. I can say the same thing about cigarettes. Underage kids can find a way to get them so we might as well tell kids how to do so safely, right?

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Telling them not to have sex, or making a law, won't help a goddamn thing.

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Telling them not to smoke, or making a law, won't help a goddamn thing. At least, it won't if you're sending mixed messages like "you shouldn't do this, but if you're going to here's how..."

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This guys a [censored] lunatic. Does he actually wonder why we don't lump guns, knives and sex into one category?

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Tell me then, oh wise one, what is the reason?

[coffeecrazy1]

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An interesting quote from The Federalist Patriot (a conservative journal):

"[N]o big deal. By definition, that's what a 'major social norm' is: no big deal. But in fact it is a big deal—whether the grown-ups in their lives are prepared to say so or not—when kids too young to lawfully buy a pack of cigarettes are routinely engaging in sexual activity that most of them don't yet have the maturity or understanding to handle. In its potential to inflict internal damage or cause lasting pain, sex far surpasses tobacco. But while kids are warned repeatedly and stridently about the dangers of smoking, school-age sex is widely regarded as inevitable. The same people who enforce 'zero-tolerance' strictures when it comes to guns and knives push a very different message when it comes to sex: Keep it 'safe' and legal, and you'll hear no complaints from us... Shouldn't those charged with the education of teenagers be pushing back against the relentless sexualization of the culture instead of knuckling under to it? With sex bombarding them everywhere they turn, don't kids need more than ever to be taught that sex is for grown-ups?... There is something awfully sad and strange about a culture in which teenage sex is condoned so long as it is 'safe,' while teenage smoking is denounced as categorically wrong. Sex has become a mere issue of health and the law, while morality is reserved for tobacco." —Jeff Jacoby

Does he have a point? If not, why not?

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Here is my issue with it. The thing that has changed in our society is not so much that children are having sex, but that they are being more upfront about it. I personally know of family members of mine who are in their late 60's, and have been married for 50 years...due to a hushed-up, unwanted pregnancy.

Also...something that has changed is that people are getting married later in life than ever before, so the prospect of telling a child that he must abstain until marriage is no longer the difference between waiting from ages 17 to 22, but is the difference between ages 17 to 30.

Frankly, I am a 26-year-old who was raised in a very fundamental Christian environment. Despite being attractive and personable, I made the decision to wait until marriage to have sex. It is only now, after watching my brother's first marriage collapse in part because he wanted to get married only to have sex, and because I now feel like an outcast, that I regret my decision to wait.

I am putting myself at risk for flames, insults, whatever for admitting that I am still a virgin, and not because I can't get a girl. The constant drumming of "abstain, abstain" has certainly done its job...I have passed up opportunities to have sex before...but given that I spend long months without any sort of physical interaction, am consistently frustrated, feel like a freak, and generally have to constantly fight off feelings of perversion and inadequacy, I now wonder if the strategy of my upbringing was the right one.

[hmkpoker]

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Of all the responses, I like this one the best. It seems like the most consistent if you're not going to have the government mandate education in drinking and shooting.

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Why thank you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It seems you're a conservative fellow, so while we're on the topic, I thought I'd ask the following:

Conservatives often emphasize the value of "personal responsibility." (This is one of the things I like about conservative philosophy) However, they are often the outspoken ones when it comes to social regulation (anti-drug, anti-sex, anti-abortion, pro-censorship, etc)

Is it politically inconsistent to promote the idea of accountability while supporting the removal of priviledges that we are to be held accountable for? (Americans are quick to cheerlead for freedom without realizing that with freedom comes some risk and danger.)

[BCPVP]

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Is it politically inconsistent to promote the idea of accountability while supporting the removal of priviledges that we are to be held accountable for?

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I would say that it can be consistent if you don't go the gov't route (passing a law). But the gov't then needs to at least be neutral regarding the topic. While abortion is an exception for me (because I think most of them are murder and not "choice" and hence deserving of legislation against), things like drugs I would want the gov't to stay out of. I regret that some conservatives abandon their principals when it comes to things like that. Must just be my libertarian streak...

[hmkpoker]

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marriage is no longer the difference between waiting from ages 17 to 22, but is the difference between ages 17 to 30.

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Good point! Never thought of that before.

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Frankly, I am a 26-year-old who was raised in a very fundamental Christian environment. Despite being attractive and personable, I made the decision to wait until marriage to have sex. It is only now, after watching my brother's first marriage collapse in part because he wanted to get married only to have sex, and because I now feel like an outcast, that I regret my decision to wait.

I am putting myself at risk for flames, insults, whatever for admitting that I am still a virgin, and not because I can't get a girl. The constant drumming of "abstain, abstain" has certainly done its job...I have passed up opportunities to have sex before...but given that I spend long months without any sort of physical interaction, am consistently frustrated, feel like a freak, and generally have to constantly fight off feelings of perversion and inadequacy, I now wonder if the strategy of my upbringing was the right one.

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I'm socially pretty liberal, so I guess you can imagine what my generic response would be. (Not knowing you, I won't have the audacity to suggest what you should do with your sex life)

Nevertheless, I applaud you for having the gall to post this. I think you made an excellent point, and I sincerely hope that the people who read it have the common decency NOT to flame someone for this.

[hmkpoker]

Excellent. You do conservatives some justice.

Personally I'm pro-abortion, but I can understand the conservative stance on it much moreso than censorship, drugs, and sex.

[Iplayboard]

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Conservatives are so stupid...

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And you are simply brilliant making a comment like that, aren't you? It's going to immediately bring everyone around to your way of thinking, isn't it? It's just so enlightening. It certainly won't offend anyone, will it?

So, that makes you, uh, well maybe your brilliant mind can figure it out.

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Abstinence only approaches, primarily advocated by conservative, religious groups are bad ideas because they argue for extreme measures.

Saying not to have sex in order to prevent AIDS/STDs is like saying we should ban automobiles in order to prevent accident-related deaths. Sure it solves the problem, but at great costs. I realize that every time I drive in my car (have sex) I have x chance of dying (getting an STD) but I personally decide that the gains from driving my car exceed the harms of doing so. Wearing a seat belt (using a condom) and driving safely seem to be more realistic alternatives.

The only reason why this is a bad analogy is because if used properly condoms are nearly virtually certain of preventing the spread of disease whereas wearing a seat belt while driving like a maniac or being in the wrong place at the wrong time is still dangerous.

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Nevertheless, I applaud you for having the gall to post this. I think you made an excellent point, and I sincerely hope that the people who read it have the common decency NOT to flame someone for this.

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Rather than gall, I'd say coffee's got a lot of guts, balls, chutzpah.

And I admire guys who stand up and say things about themselves that the stereotypical male cringes at.

nh to you both

[etgryphon]

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I am putting myself at risk for flames, insults, whatever for admitting that I am still a virgin, and not because I can't get a girl. The constant drumming of "abstain, abstain" has certainly done its job...I have passed up opportunities to have sex before...but given that I spend long months without any sort of physical interaction, am consistently frustrated, feel like a freak, and generally have to constantly fight off feelings of perversion and inadequacy, I now wonder if the strategy of my upbringing was the right one.


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Bravo...coffee.

I was a virgin up until I met my wife. It is still the safest way not to get a STD and that is irrefutable. And whether people want to admit it or not, there is something to be said for looking into your spouses eyes and knowing that they are the only one you have been with...

BTW, flame away if you feel the need...[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-Gryph