Illustrative hand. What do we want here?

[shaniac]

Does pushing allin get some hands (like JJ and TT) to fold that we don't want in there? It's an online tournament, where no one ever folds anything that resembles a hand, so the issue is kind of moot.

In a live tournament, playing proportionately deep and against good players, I would excpect the big stacks to be folding QQ a fairly large amount of the time.

Anyway, I pushed. SB with 14K went into the tank and eventually called with QQ. Utg had AT (there you go, Lloyd re: "To me, AK is only "good" if I'm up against Ax."). I lost the pot.

I think the consensus is that I'm not folding to a push after calling, so I figure pushing allin preflop turns out to be the best play.

[Exitonly]

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I think the consensus is that I'm not folding to a push after calling, so I figure pushing allin preflop turns out to be the best play.


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If you're going to call anyway, wouldn't you want to let them come in with worse hands? If you push, they're definitely only coming along with QQ+, AKo/Aks, but if you just call, they'll come along with TT+, and maybe AQs.

Or maybe it's best to scare away the pairs.

Dunno.

[shaniac]

That's the issue I guess...I'm not dying for a confronation vs. TT and one of the big stacks. I don't particularly mind one, but at the end of the day, I'd always prefer they make the tough decision with JJ (or even QQ) than I. After making the play, I had some doubts, but I do think it's correct looking back. Just one of the bummers of having to act in early position against an allin. I think it's going to be tough to avoid an allin vs SB here, not matter what I do, actually.

Fwiw, I think I push AA and KK some fair % of the time, too, in these spots.

[schwza]

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If I call am I planning on dumping AK if one of the 13-14K stacks pushes allin behind me?


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there's gonna be ~14k in dead money and you'll have to call ~9.5k if the biggest stack pushes. it's an unfortunate spot to be in, but you have odds to call against KK and JJ (i think).

i think i would just push because if you get called by a hand like 99, you're not going to get paid off if you flop a pair but you are going to moved off the flop if you don't. i'd prefer to be all-in.

[adanthar]

Tough one. I'd just do what I normally do with every hand I play here and call. That lets me get out of a really weird situation like a repush/call behind (also, keep in mind that if AK is 'good', an out is missing).

95% of the time, I'm calling a push behind.

(edit: this assumes nobody's gonna overcall 99. If they are bad enough to do that sometimes, a push is better.)

[gergery]

Another good alternative here is to raise to 9k.

This is identical to pushing all in immediately except that the weird bet amount looks more like an AA/KK that wants to be called, and hence you are more likely to generate folds from pocket pairs (which you want).

-g

[kuro]

I don't think it matters that much between calling and pushing.

I probably push because if another big stack calls I don't want them getting off of their pocket pair when an ace flops or pushing into me on a missed flop and stoping me from seeing the turn/river.

If you call preflop and both big stacks push, it's still hard to fold because of the pot odds and the fact that even if you loose you have a very decent sized stack.