Card room ethics question

[benkahuna]

I was playing in a card room recently with a very drunk, pissed at the world, off duty LAG dealer.

The dealer played a hand specifically in a manner to make me lose money in the hand and told me that was his intention. It wasn't some ploy to mess with me to win the hand and his action was consistent with his stated intentions. For the sake of the discussion, even if you find this idea implausible, just assume I'm correct because this is a question about ethics, not the particular situation that spawned the question.

The setup.

3 players in hand.

Angry dealer, me, and another guy acting in that order.

On the flop (big pot, capped preflop):

Dealer guy checks. I check. Other guy bets. Dealer raises. I call. Other guy raises, dealer reraises. Dealer says he's not going to the win the hand, but that he wants to punish me and make sure that I lose the maximum losing the hand as well.

Turn: Same deal.

Check, check, bet, raise, call, reraise, reraise. I fold here because I don't like the action given the board texture any longer.


Does acting in a hand to specifically cause someone to lose money violate standard card room rules/ethics when you don't have a chance of making your hand?

[Percula]

Unless the dealer is working with the other player, you dont have a leg to stand on as far as the card room is concerned. But it sounds like you two have a personal problem that needs to be worked out with this dealer.

On the other hand if he is doing this to anyone/everyone, well it is a grey area, but I would likely point it out to the floor and let them decide if the employee was violating any room rules.

Yes, I think you've got a valid complaint. The other bettor has heard this dealer threaten to cost you money, so collusion is implied, although the cardroom should find the non-dealer blameless.

What you're basically describing is a "monkey in the middle" strategy, with you as the chimp. Rather than report it, I'd use it to your advantage. Wait for the strong hand and trap the other player.

Having said all of this, I find this scenario at best to be extremely rare. Even a drunk clown isn't going to piss money away just to get back at you. You two must have some real issues.

[Abbaddabba]

The off duty dealer is at fault.

He's verbally giving information about his hand to other players, and in the given situation, the other player in the hand is able to exploit that information. Using the available information isn't against the rules. If someone flips their cards up half way through a hand, you cant blame someone for taking the dead cards into consideration when making his decisions.

Him raising you isnt the problem either. It's that he's telling the other player that the reason he's raising isn't because of the value of his hand. Whether or not revealing information about your hand without actually saying WHAT you have may or may not be against the rules for that card room, and the penalty probably varies depending on where this is.

It's colluding in a sense, but probably not the type that the card room will be strict about.


From your perspective, you should take advantage of the 'tard. If he's going to effectively "collude" against you by opening action to a bettor every round that you call, you can as soon cash in on the maniacal action by just calling with very strong hands. Also, when you have a strong draw, he's putting dead money into the pot.

I don't understand why a dealer would do this, does he think this helps his tips?

Were the Dealer's cards ever shown? The reason I ask this is that there are players who will talk trash like this. But in fact the reason they are betting that way is because they are actually trying to win the hand. Its really no different than a player who throws in a call while saying I'm donating to you. They are saying one thing (you win) while trying to win the hand (either they are on a draw or they think that you are).

If in fact his play was legimate (that is he actually wasn't just trying to make you lose more money to the third player) than merely saying that he was seems no worse than any other "trable talk" we commonly hear . . . except for the fact that he was alienanting one of his customers.

[jba]

As far as collusion is concerned this is really no different that saying "dang, I really shouldn't be calling with this crap" as you call.

dude is a real dick though, you two need to have a chat.

[Jimbo]

Is it important to you that he is an off duty dealer?

Anyone who says this guy can't play his money as he wishes is the typical person with entitlment syndrome. Suppose this guy was a drunk fish going offf like Moby Dick to the whole table? I imagine you entitlement syndrome types would never say a word, as long as it wasn't you he was screwing.

I say it is poker, he can say he wants to screw you then proceed to screw you all he wants. As one poster said above unless this was intentional collusion between the other two parties you are, well, screwed.

He has no obligation to even tell you he is screwing you. He did you a favor with his announcement, you should feel quite lucky. Keep in mind, sometimes poker players lie.

[MookieBlaylock]

What was the end result of the hand? Did they have a showdown or did the dealer also fold? And what did you do to piss off this OD dealer?

[bigfishead]

Confirms another reason to not be a prick to dealers, and toke them too! One drunk nite they may just cost ya a whole lot more for being an ass to them at some time or totally stiffing them all the time.

No opinion worthwhile from me otherwise. Mostly cause I dont have the time and gotta go deal the big game at Bellagio tonight!! lol.

What did everybody have?!?!?!

I would be more interested in what was so darn good that you would call so many bets? and then fold.