My contribution to all the "turning pro" posts. LONG

[Bikeboy]

What are your plans for health insurance? Also you're to damn young to be having kids yet. Shouldn't even consider it until you're finished with college and in a job in your field.

[livinitup0]

Im under my wifes work insurance.... for now anyways. Plus if we get our own plan pretty soon while we're relatively young, we'll have a much better chance of not being denied coverage.
The only real worry I hav right now is what Im going to do about uncle sam for those 4 years. I have a feeling that the taxes are going to be pretty harsh. Im not sure about Illinois law but gambling anywhere besides a riverboat is illegal here (hasnt been anything said about internet gambling yet) So I dont even know what Im supposed to put on my tax forms. Guess I'll just have to hire an accountant.

[Ray Of Light]

Normally, whenever someone poses the 'should I turn pro' question, my answer is usually yes.


Someone who has few overheads, no dependants, and a poorly paid job, could make a LOT of money right now, in the game of poker.

However, someone who has a decent job, with good wage increasing prospects, a spouse, a mortage, and is looking to start a family soon, would be much better off leaving poker as a part-time income.

If you want to study, go for it. But don't quit your job to study. Study through correspondence courses, or in night school. You don't need to drop everything just to get ahead in life.

You have a mortgage, and you may find that you have a baby on the way (if your wife is adamant about kids). Poker as a job, at that stage in your life, may prove too stressful.

[ QUOTE ]
I really do want to get into graphic/web design...any 2+2'ers in this type of buisness?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am both a web and graphic designer. I absolutley love it. I work for a resort in Arizona doing all their print ads, internal marketing, menus, signs, ect. and also have my own freelance business on the side. I would say for being 24 I'm doing pretty well, as I dont have a college degree myself. My portfolio and my resume are better than a degree in my opinion. All I can suggest is that if you get into the business word of mouth will be your best friend. Do exceptional work for one person or company and they will pass your name along to the next person that inquires. That is how I got all of my freelance work. Good luck with it and PM me if you have any more questions relating to the field.

[MicroBob]

I would recommend more than a $6k bankroll for this.


Yes...you have to pay taxes.
You can just put 'professional gambler' on the tax-form. It is most likely that it doesn't matter what your interpretation of Illinois law is. They are not supposed to be able to use your occupation against you.

You are forced to pay taxes....you also have a 'right' against self-incrimination ("I invoke my 5th amendment rights")...therefore, they can't use your tax-info against you for such a purpose or else it would be contradictory to your 5th amendment rights.


1 - You may want to get Gamblers Guide to Taxes by Walter L. Lewis. It doesn't cover internet-gambling (it's a little dated) but it does cover the differences in professional gambling vs. recreational gambling.

2 - There have been about a zillion threads about casual players AND pros paying their taxes. One of the best threads was in the internet-forum in Feb or Mar I think. A poster named 'CPA' answered many questions about it very intelligently. My Q's are all over that thread naturally.
I'm sure you (or someone) will be able to find it in the archives.
Definitely read that thread because it sounds like you have virtually zero idea what you are doing regarding the taxes (which is okay....so did I).

3 - Make sure you keep accurate daily records of your wins/losses as well as your 'professional' expenses (such as internet-connection, poker-books, etc) and you will be better prepared to deal with the IRS if they come knocking on your door wondering what the hell you're doing for income.

4 - Read the series of articles by Ed Miller in the 2+2 internet-magazine regarding 'going pro' (in the upper-left corner fo the green-bar).
He has written about it over the last 3 months
Hurry up too...because the first of those articles will be deleted forever soon (the 2+2 articles 'expire' after 3 months).
Also read the articles in the magazine by Al Schoonmaker on the same topic.


5 - I'm going to go back and say it.
I don't know how much you've been winning or what limit you are playing. But $50k in rakeback while only thinking you need to save up for a $6k-$7k bankroll sounds "possible" but still a little weird to me.


6 - While you're under your wife's health-care...you shouldn't 'rely' on her income for anything else...otherwise she could resent the situation and you could have problems.
There is a difference between: a. being a pro-poker player, and b. being a losing poker-player who relies on his wife's/GF's income.

In other words...it is my opinion that if it doesn't go well for you then YOU have to suck it up and get a job BEFORE
considering the idea of "honey, I've just had some bad luck and need a little money to keep me going. I know it's going to turn-around. I promise."

It's situations like this that you want to avoid obviously.

Thus, I believe you HAVE to prepared to get a real job again if it goes badly.....and thus you want to have a much larger bankroll then you initially think might be necessary in order to avoid such a situation.


Obviously this differs from person to person and couple to couple. Just my suggestions on how to best approach the situation.

[Mister Z]

One thing I think it's important to remember is that you need to be prepared to be spending in the range of (at least) $600 a month in childcare. It's a pretty good hit to the monthly expenses. Diapers and baby food do add up but daycare is what can really cost you. Don't forget about the fact that getting up (and staying awake) at 7am with the baby is going to be tough after you've stayed up until 2am at the tables. I like your idea of going after what you want to do, and if you can take care of yourselves by playing poker in the meantime then great. I would wait until you are more settled (ie. finished with school, working full time) before going ahead with kids though. Just my $.02. Good luck.

[livinitup0]

I did a lot of searching today in the threads. Ive pulled up millers articles, and even got back to re-reading David Ross's first and seconf year posts. Which I must say did actually keep me insipred in the dark beginning days of failing at 1/2. Its weird, looking back at those posts now, the certain hands, I actually have MY own opinions about what some of the pros are doing. When I first read them it was more like a manual that I didnt dare contridict.

Anyways, Ive decided that I will eventually leave my current job, but I think im going to up my bankroll requirements a lot. I think I need to wait until I have about 1000BB of 10/20. Ive got a long way to go. I think that during this time I can study a whole lot more from current pros, get out all the questions I can think of and be over-ready for doing this. I think that this over-protection will enable me to enjoy my first few months a lot more as most pros usually hit a hard streak when they go fulltime. I dont want to stress then, I want to enjoy not working [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Also Im really thinking after I get back from vegas next month Im going to start taking like a monthly JoeTall coaching session.

Its funny (IF you're sick of this NC post then please stop reading now)
Tomorrow is my birthday and earlier today I went back home to have dinner with my family. I got to sit down to talk with my sister who just graduated high school and started college. She too is intersted in graphic desgin. She publishes her own Japanese Manga, and just started classes.

I've relized recently that she's really a lot smarter than I give her credit for, and really enjoy talking seriously with her now. I told her of my "going pro" post on here and asked her opinion. She gave a pretty weird look when I was talking about winning and losing hundreds of dollars everyday. Not much help here.
My dad came out then and I tactfully brought the topic up again with him. This was pretty tough. After telling him about my stats, the money potential, and going back to school, he just kind of looked at me weird and told me that he could never rely on gambling to support his family. My mother was a little more aggro about the situation as she commented "I will kick your ass if you quit your job!"

Hmmm, maybe in a year or so If I show them a 20K balance in Neteller they may think different.

...Anyways thanks everyone. Appreciate the help.

_______________________________________________
"F@CK IT IM GOING TO PLAY CARDS!"

[grandgnu]

Uh, you might want to consider somewhere between 3-6 months living expenses, in addition to your bankroll as well.

Right now I'm going semi-pro. I don't rely on poker to pay the bills, but I take it more serious than a recreational hobby. I have been a winning player this year (slight loser last year, kept statistics, but I've studied A LOT more this year and improved my game quite a bit)

I'm not making enough to live off of, but I'm enjoying it and it's profitable. I work, as does my soon-to-be-wife. We have no children and no intention of having them, so that makes it easier.

Since you have a wife and kids and mortgage, I recommend the following:

1. Leave the wife and kids

2. Buy a dog, you need some type of companionship, plus he can protect you when you sleep on the streets in the back alley

3. Hang around casinos wearing "urban" clothing and majorly tacky "bling". Harass the regulars until they begin staking you, then forget to pay them back, or complain how you're "stuck" and can't pay the 100 bucks back (while you have 3 grand worth of chips in play)

4. Stop shaving regularly, the scruffy look is uber-pro

5. Start eating those ramon noodles, it'll prepare you for life as a poker pro and college student

6. Find some gold digging chick who will only stick around when you're winning. This will help you to play better, since you won't want to lose the nookie

7. Develop a coke habit and rob convenience stores and gas stations, then claim to be a "victim of circumstance"

8. Place 9th in the WSOP for $1 million (U.S.) and then casually remark how it was only worth your time to place in the top 3, and that this million will only pay off a few markers.

9. Blame various psychological disorders and medications for the cause of your outbursts at the tables.

[The Legend]

god bless the mouth

[beekeeper]

[ QUOTE ]
What are your plans for health insurance? Also you're to damn young to be having kids yet. Shouldn't even consider it until you're finished with college and in a job in your field.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is without a doubt the most reasonable advice in this thread. If you don't think that things can change and you and your wife can lose her insurance coverage, you haven't had enough real life experience. All kinds of thing happen in life that you don't expect, and you have to have some sort of contingency--for your income and your health care.

My sister and brother-in-law are in their late 20s. Their combined income was $100k +. They had their first child two years ago. He was born with a rare heart defect that has already required 3 open heart surgeries. My sister chose not to return to work because, among other reasons, my nephew's condition meant that he could not be around other people for over a year because he couldn't risk exposure to any germs. Before his birth, the family chose to be covered by my sister's insurance, as hers had the best coverage. Since she did not return to work, they lost that coverage. They are covered now, through my brother-in-law's work, but his copay is over $1,500 per month. They do not have her income to help pay that copay. Additionally, their hospital bills not only wiped out all their savings, but has put them into serious debt. These are 2 people who had a healthy income, healthy savings, good jobs and a plan.

It really doesn't matter how good of a poker player you are--you can't predict the future and you don't seem to have a plan. What if the current poker fad turns out just to be a fad and the only people who play on line are people with comparable skill so that you can't make the amount of money you think you can? What if your wife loses her job, or suddenly has to pay part of her insurance coverage (which is extremely likely, as it is the easiest way for companies to cut their bottom line). What if a member of your family gets ill, and you are suddenly stuck with huge hospital debt (even the best plans have a cap and only cover 80% of major medical).

I agree with previous posters who say that if children are in the picture, you have to think of them first. But even without children, even if you were single, for your own sake you need to think long term. If you don't want to sit behind a desk or be part of the corporate structure, then plan something else and really think through the next 10-20 years. Have a contingency for the unexpected. You owe it to yourself and your family.