30 Omaha/8 Starting Hands

SheridanCat · #1 09-14-2005, 09:13 AM

Last week I was called too tight when I said to fold A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in Omaha/8 preflop. TaoTe asked me how I ever play any hands with my tight standards. I've been thinking a lot about that thread.

Last night while playing Omaha/8 on PokerStars, I decided to actually track what hands I played. I don't have PokerTracker for Omaha, so no fancy stuff here. I just listed each of the 30 hands I was dealt and what action I took. I put the action I took in white.

The game was very loose and very passive. In the 30 hands I played, there was one preflop raise, I believe. Most flops were seen with 5-6 players.

I'm not saying my actions were correct in all cases. As I look at these hands, I see 4 places where I folded but think I should have called and 2 places where I called but think I should have folded.

I don't usually do a lot of preflop raising with a table this loose and passive.

Perhaps you'll find this a boring and stupid exercise; if so, my apologies for wasting the forum's time. When it comes to Omaha/8, I'm just a beginner trying to figure out this fun and aggravating game.

1) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: fold

2) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Action: call

3) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Action: fold

4) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Action: fold

5) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: call

6) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Action: call

7) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: fold

8) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: fold

9) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Action: fold

10) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Action: fold

11) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Action: call

12) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Action: call

13) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Action: fold

14) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: check

15) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: fold

16) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Action: fold

17) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Action: call

18) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Action: fold

19) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Action: fold

20) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: fold

21) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: call

22) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Action: check

23) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Action: fold

24) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: fold

25) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Action: call

26) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Action: fold

27) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Action: call

28) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Action: call

29) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Action: fold

30) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Action: call

donkeyradish · #2 09-14-2005, 10:34 AM

There are hands listed there to always play and hands to never play, but inbetween there are many other considerations, Limit or Pot limit? Position? Raises ahead of you? Number of opponents? etc

SheridanCat · #3 09-14-2005, 11:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There are hands listed there to always play and hands to never play, but inbetween there are many other considerations, Limit or Pot limit? Position? Raises ahead of you? Number of opponents? etc

[/ QUOTE ]

This is $5/$10 limit Omaha/8 at PokerStars. You can assume no raises at all in these hands and you can assume you will see 4-6 players in each hand. As I said, this is a loose, passive game.

As for position, I would contend in the game as described position is pretty much irrelevant.

Regards,

T

TaoTe · #4 09-14-2005, 12:08 PM

I'm a N00B to the game as well, still trying to figure out some really simple things. Something that keeps eluding me is when to bet the nut low only hand, as often I just check and hope not to put my money in getting 1/4.

Did you start playing the 5/10? It seems like a high limit to learn the game.

A234 is my favorite hand in Omaha8. I've played AA23 once and folded when I missed the flop. Other than that, playing something like A267 or A278 has shown a great profit. I'm not a fan of double paired hands like AA66 but if the game was passive it's worth limping in and trying to hit a set or spade flush draw.

Your play doesn't seem overly tight at all.The waiting in the game can be slow and painful and anyone dying to get into a pot won't find the cards they need to justify it. Even if you only play hands with an A2 or four broadway cards the tedium can be enormous. Add that to the fact that you see less hands per hour because an O8 hand will run longer than a HE hand and it's easy to get bored while playing and daze off or go make a pizza.

My friend was watching me play the other day and thought I was crazy for folding aces before the flop. I shrugged and said, "that's a junk hand." THe point being that you're never pressing a big edge before the flop, you're pressing the edge after the flop. You can't have a hand locked up in HE like you can in Omaha with the nut low, nut flush draw, nut straight, and top set (nut set? set of nuts? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

There's a thread about rasing preflop or prefloop (did anyone see this on last night's WSOP) in O8. It has a lot of good material and some posts by Buzz that are great. It also has some posts by Ribbo where he proves he is a troll and the reason why live O8 is full of cranky old men. Basically, there isn't a consenus about when to raise prefloop as everyone seems to have their own opinion.

As usual my posts turned out to be too long, sorry. I'd enjoy discussing the game more about just general play and feel of the game if you're interested.

"Here comes the floop"

Tao

jb9 · #5 09-14-2005, 12:50 PM

Maybe I've been playing too much PL O/8, but I think I fold hands: 5, 6, 21, 27, 28 and 30. I might call with 18 (hoping for a high only hand) and probably raise with 11 just because you gotta raise sometimes.

SheridanCat · #6 09-14-2005, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I've been playing too much PL O/8, but I think I fold hands: 5, 6, 21, 27, 28 and 30. I might call with 18 (hoping for a high only hand) and probably raise with 11 just because you gotta raise sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the hands you mention: 5, 6, 21, 27 & 30 I completely agree were bad calls and that 18 was a bad fold. 11 was a nice hand, and I probably should have raised with it. 28 I like just for the Broadway cards, but it's pretty marginal.

I don't think PL has skewed your instincts. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the feedback,

T

SheridanCat · #7 09-14-2005, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a N00B to the game as well, still trying to figure out some really simple things. Something that keeps eluding me is when to bet the nut low only hand, as often I just check and hope not to put my money in getting 1/4.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fortunately, in some of these games you'll have so many players in the hand that you can safely put your money in figuring to be quartered and still make money. Okay - slight exaggeration, but sometimes it seems like it works that way.

Honestly, I rarely raise or bet the nut low with four or fewer players in.

[ QUOTE ]

Did you start playing the 5/10? It seems like a high limit to learn the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've actually been playing O/8 for 3 years or so, and I learned the basics in a live 8/16 half kill (later 10/20 half kill) game. There were a couple of very good players there who were willing to talk strategy a bit. I'm bankrolled for the limit and feel pretty comfortable at it. Maybe this is why I fixate on scooping so much. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]

The waiting in the game can be slow and painful and anyone dying to get into a pot won't find the cards they need to justify it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. I once played in a game at Trump in Indiana. The dealers were so flustered that we only go in about 15 hands in the first hour. Yeah, that was painful. This slowness actually helps, I think. Impatience will hurt you in hold'em, but it will kill you in Omaha/8, in my opinion.

[ QUOTE ]

There's a thread about rasing preflop or prefloop (did anyone see this on last night's WSOP) in O8. It has a lot of good material and some posts by Buzz that are great. It also has some posts by Ribbo where he proves he is a troll and the reason why live O8 is full of cranky old men. Basically, there isn't a consenus about when to raise prefloop as everyone seems to have their own opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that thread. I try to read everything of Buzz's over there. To anyone who has not read his stuff, go read it before playing any Omaha/8. I will raise preflop (even if that 30 hands doesn't indicate it) but it's pretty rare if the game is a passive fest - as they often are.

[ QUOTE ]

As usual my posts turned out to be too long, sorry. I'd enjoy discussing the game more about just general play and feel of the game if you're interested.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure thing. Probably I should just get off my ass and go particpate in the Omaha/8 forum.

Thanks for the comments,

T

Cooker · #8 09-14-2005, 04:41 PM

I see some strange things here. Of the hands you fold preflop, I would almost always play 7, and seriously consider playing 9, 18, and 20. This of course depends on position and tendancies at the table, but all those hands seem easy post flop from my point of view. I may even dabble around with 23 from the button.

Of the hands you elected to call I would consider 5, 6, 21, 28, and 30 to all be pure garbage and much worse than the hands I listed which you fold. 27 is also a very questionable call preflop, but may be playable from late position.

You want to pick hands with GOOD scoop potential. A big pair can make a big FH or big trips on a high board and scoop. 4 big cards can make big straits on high boards and scoop. Suited ace little hands can make nut flushes and nut lows and scoop. A hand like 4567 rainbow can get you quartered for high and can only scoop on a board with 89T or 789 with no other low cards and then you are on the idiot end of a straight and most likely going to lose if anyone stays in. That hand probably plays worse post flop than 72o plays in holdem.

Also, if you aren't raising AA65 and AA66 preflop, you should be. I think you want to narrow the field and play aggressively with these semi dry aces. By the way, if you hold AA66 then A36 with 2 of a suit is a rotten flop for your hand. You usually have to fill up here to keep half the pot and the lows will be freerolling straight and flush draws against you and you have 2 blockers against your own boat. Recognizing flops that fit your hand well is also very important. This flop looks like a dream, but is probably a money loser.

SheridanCat · #9 09-14-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I see some strange things here. Of the hands you fold preflop, I would almost always play 7, and seriously consider playing 9, 18, and 20. This of course depends on position and tendancies at the table, but all those hands seem easy post flop from my point of view. I may even dabble around with 23 from the button.

Of the hands you elected to call I would consider 5, 6, 21, 28, and 30 to all be pure garbage and much worse than the hands I listed which you fold. 27 is also a very questionable call preflop, but may be playable from late position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the comments, Cooker. Most of the hands you mention are ones I think I acted incorrectly on.

I see your point on 7, but I feel like I'm just playing for low there. However, I guess your point might be that you have good counterfeit protection and if the wheel comes through there's going to be a good shot that I can make high with the 7. Is that a correct analysis?

Can you tell me a bit about what your thoughts are on 9? I didn't have that down as one I thought was questionable.

Thanks,

T

cwsiggy · #10 09-14-2005, 05:57 PM

11 is a definite raise.