Flop Decision: 65s - Page 2

Vote4Pedro · #11 07-15-2005, 03:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Betting immediately into the preflop raiser with a vulnerable hand, expecting the PFR to rais, you're able to face the field with calling two cold. This will often get rid of those pesky overcards.

Not to mention, in micro-limits, your fives might very well be good and a bet is for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

aK13 · #12 07-15-2005, 03:13 AM

I like to 3bet the flop. Very likely UTG is raising here with overs, and button is doing what he usually does. I believe you have enough value to raise here, as you are very likely to be ahead. Even if you are behind a big PP, you have at least 6 outs, plus some 2pair outs which are likely to be good still.

Kumubou · #13 07-15-2005, 03:32 AM

Except that the 'field' is just one donk, who will donk along like a good donk will.

Am I the only one who has a measure of respect to UTG raises, even in 6-max? I figure I'm behind a large PP more often than not (even though not obscenely so). However, you have a few outs to improve and lots more to get a strong draw.

2 5s to trips
3 6s to two-pair (which introduces straight redraws)
4 4s to a straight

There are also cards that improve our hand:

10 spades to a spade draw
4 8s to a one-card OESD
(the 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] gives you 13 more outs!)

Weight them all blah blah blah but you probably have 8-9 outs total.

This bet is for one reason: value. Since you have El Donk along for the ride, 3-bet and see if UTG takes a dump in his pants.

I reevaluate on the turn depending on what drops (paint, a spade, the straight, an anvil, etc.) If there is anything I can do to get UTG out of this hand then by Gord I would be doing it.

-K

toddw8 · #14 07-15-2005, 04:00 AM

Is this a standard call PF at 6max? Seems awfully loose to me, but no one else has mentioned it.

aK13 · #15 07-15-2005, 04:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard call PF at 6max? Seems awfully loose to me, but no one else has mentioned it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very standard, period. Do some math [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I sometimes defend with it. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Vote4Pedro · #16 07-15-2005, 10:49 AM

PF is so standard its not even worth mentioning. What do you think about the play on the flop?

Vote4Pedro · #17 07-15-2005, 02:41 PM

bump...

CanadianAmy · #18 07-15-2005, 03:37 PM

I am thinking call. This is one of those hands that will either greatly improve on the Turn or look a lot worse. I also think that if you hold off until the turn there is a chance that the button will fold. I am inclined to the think that UTG is going to showdown at this point.

BTW I put you on 9.5 outs right now....4 4's, 2 5's, 1.5 BDF, 2 6's

If I hit the turn I check raise.

(As a side note, if I was in late position with this I would try and raise to get a free card on the turn.)

Amy

Nfinity · #19 07-16-2005, 01:36 PM

I wouldn't 3-bet.

Here's Why: You are correct in assuming that you have an edge here. But it is very slim.First, you are against an unknown, and this sort of aggression is particularly uncommon in you average 1/2 player. If later on you find out he's a TAG or LAG, so be it, but in these situations it's best to err on the side of caution. Secondly, all your draws are very weak, and subject to redraws. If you pair your 5's you should be alright, but a 4 gives both opponents a three out redraw to the split(the 6's) and the 6's give them 4(the 4's) Not to mention the fact that you may make your 2 pair and it gives someone a straight. In this case I would just call and see what develops.

On the Turn, If I improve my hand I will likely bet again. If a spade falls I'm Check/ Calling. Otherwise I'm probably folding the Turn UI.

Vote4Pedro · #20 07-16-2005, 02:47 PM

So I ended up calling...

After I discussed the hand with a few people, I was kinda torn between calling and 3betting, but I think calling is the best choice w/o a solid read on UTG.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero...Donk or C/R and why?