Folding aces, preflop, in a cash game

[tylerdurden]

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Yes the play is +EV. Fine. Yes the pot is offering a good price (let's assume 3.5:1 for the time being) for taking the 3:2 semi-coin-flip here. Fine. Yes this makes sense to play.

But for all your money?

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Did you read the original question???

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You are concerned only about maximizing your EV from this hand.

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Given that condition, there IS enough information. And like I said, if your stack size is "all your money" then you're too retarded to even be playing the game in the first place.

If you're sufficiently bankrolled and you're too scared to risk your current stack as a 58-42 favorite against 3 opponents, then you shouldn't be playing.

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Because you can go completely broke in one hand...

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Players can't rebuy in your homegame? Even if I couldn't rebuy for the night, I would STILL play this hand.

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In any event, if you are in CT, and you really really like the 3:2 scenario with aces, I sincerely invite you to our Tuesday night tourney NLTH $40 buyin with rebuys weekly event.

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Oh, a tourney. WITH REBUYS. The original question is clearly about a CASH game - where there is no fear of busting out (for a properly bankrolled player). In a tourney, this MIGHT not be a good play - but if you're in the rebuy period, this is a no-brainer.

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state that you like 3:2 for all your money in NLTH cash, when that same game is providing numerous 3,4,5to1 spots nearly every orbit.

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Oh, so there's a cash game too. Why can't I take advantage of this "3:2" situation AND the "numerous" 3,4, and 5-1 spots too? Can I only play one hand per orbit??

[CrackerZack]

This question is stupid. Take it to a math board. In poker, you don't fold aces PF, or take up another game. Taking the time to find hypothetical situation where you have to worst of is like math homework. When you're done figuring out these odd situations, figure out how often they'll happen and then wonder why you put the time into figuring out something that will happen as often as you will be hit by lightning.

[tylerdurden]

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This question is stupid. Take it to a math board. In poker, you don't fold aces PF, or take up another game. Taking the time to find hypothetical situation where you have to worst of is like math homework. When you're done figuring out these odd situations, figure out how often they'll happen and then wonder why you put the time into figuring out something that will happen as often as you will be hit by lightning.

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The question isn't stupid. True, this situation will never occur in an actual game, but asking questions like this can help one understand the deep inner-workings of the game better.

[mtdurham]

Dude you can't actually be serious about folding Aces preflop in a cash game.

If all 9 people go all-in in front of me and I'm only a 14% favorite to win the pot I dont think twice before I throw my chips in the middle.

58% chance of winning a pot that only contains 25% of your chips???? That's the highest EV play you are gonna see all week without a made hand...

PLease don't get me started on the "ALL your money" stuff... what do you mean all your money? Like its all the money you have in life? As in you can't eat without it? Why the [censored] are we playing No limit hold'em on a Tuesday night with all our money and an empty refrigerator anyway?

[mosta]

your harping on 2:3 not being "worth it" when there is 1:3 coming in itself demonstrates a defective understanding of math and poker. but then your failure to grasp that it is 2:3 favorite in the context of a 3:1 payout! demonstrates a mind boggling level of cluelessness. I notice that you don't post in any of the strategy forums. try it, you might learn something.

edit: here's a lesson for you. with 3:1 on your money anything greater than 25% chance of winning is positive edge. ie, your edge doesn't begin at 50% chance to win. so 58% is a lot more than 8% edge here. many people fail to grasp this simple point.

[Quicksilvre]

The cards are flipped up at either the showdown, or when everyone in the pot save one is all in.

[Dan Mezick]

YOu left out:

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The tourney starts at 7:30 and the cash game (populated by tourney bust-outs) starts around 9:00. Come on down !

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[threeonefour]

Here is definitely a spot where you would fold AA (i hope everyone would)

imagine being at a 12 handed table and the first four players either go allin and flip up 77 66 55 and 44 (all black) or they fold them after showing (it doesn't matter either way). the next 6 players show KK QQ JJ TT 99 and 88 (all black) and move in. Finally red AA moves all in and flips her cards up. with you holding black AA you don't have the equity to call.

I think you could probably make a similar example with an 11 handed table and probably a ten too but i am too lazy to try.


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1088764
pokenum -h ac as - ad ah - kc ks - qc qs - jc js - tc ts - 9c 9s - 8c 8s / 7c 7s 6c 5c 4c 6s 5s 4s
Holdem Hi: 98280 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 0 0.00 93442 95.08 4838 4.92 0.024
Ad Ah 12338 12.55 81104 82.52 4838 4.92 0.150
Ks Kc 23938 24.36 74220 75.52 122 0.12 0.244
Qs Qc 18214 18.53 79944 81.34 122 0.12 0.185
Js Jc 13818 14.06 84340 85.82 122 0.12 0.141
Ts Tc 10650 10.84 87508 89.04 122 0.12 0.109
9s 9c 8144 8.29 90014 91.59 122 0.12 0.083
8s 8c 6340 6.45 91818 93.42 122 0.12 0.065

[tylerdurden]

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YOu left out:

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The tourney starts at 7:30 and the cash game (populated by tourney bust-outs) starts around 9:00. Come on down !

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You obviously didn't read my entire post. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[PapiChulo503]

How many players total?
Where are the other all-ins coming from?
Do you have any reads on any of the other players?
Can you put any of your opponents on a range of hands?
How much is the all-in bet in comparison to the stacks?

You have the best starting hand available, I would find it hard to fold in most situations.