Wynn Floor/Shift Decision

[baronzeus]

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I immediately objected, stating that he couldn't take any money off of the table.

[floor called and decision against player was made]

At this point, WPP bolted, not to be seen from again.

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You deserve this for being a dickhead. I was playing over 4th of July weekend at a club in Texas when one of the idiot action players who had a deep stack proceeded to take a few hundred off the table, presumably to "lock in" his profit. Other players immediately complained. I pointed out that it was a limit game, and it didn't really matter so long as he maintained an adequate working stack. The idiot action player got agitated. The floor was called. Idiot action player was told to put all his chips back up in play. At which point, he racked up all his chips and took a dime out of circulation.

Nice going, nit.

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Well put. I like idiots as much as I like money.

[neotope]

I don't understand why this matters in a limit game. Perhaps I am just uneducated on the matter. As long as the player has the minimum buy-in amount does it really matter how many chips the player has?

Also what is a third-man walking marker? I have play in probably over a dozen card rooms and have never seen such marker.

[Michael O'Malley]

In your original post, if I read it correctly, you wanted the Floorperson to make the decision that the player must leave his chips on the table while he goes to dinner. Then in a later response you stated: “If the decision is made to allow the player to remove money from the game while he is gone, then at the very least, that player should have to rebuy back into the game when he returns for at least as much as he took off the table.”

You are making it sound like you don’t think the Floorperson was going to make him put the $800 back onto the table. If this is the case, you are mistaken. Of course they are going to make him put it back onto the table when he returns, provided he still has it and wants to continue playing.

Back to the beginning...Every poker room should or does have a rule that allows a player to take his money off of the table when he leaves. The main reason for this is peace of mind and security. If a player leaves his chips and upon returning finds some missing the casino will go out of its way to find out if someone took them or if the player was mistaken. This includes asking employees if they saw anything and checking surveillance. If the manager can find no reason to believe chips were taken, then the responsivbilty (or mistaken assumption of theft) falls back to the customer and the casino holds no responsibility. Most poker rooms have a statement that covers this posted somewhere in the room.

As this applies to your situation, yes, the player should be allowed to take his money off of the table provided he is made aware that when he returns he will have to buy back in for that amount at a minimum. You (the players) nor the management have the right to tell a player they have to leave their money anywhere. After all, he is not taking it out of play, he is simply protecting his money while he away from the table.
When I play poker I usually play at limits where it is standard to buy both a rack of chips and also have either large denomination chips and/or $100 bills. Let’s take for instance $10/$20 NL Hold’em. The standard buy-in is a rack of $20 chips ($2,000). Most players in that game will also have between $5,000 - $10,000 in bigger chips and/or cash. If I leave for dinner, an extended break or sometimes even to use the bathroom, I ALWAYS take the bigger chips/cash with me. Why would I risk leaving it unattended at a table with people I don’t know, don’t trust and are (legally) attempting to take my money already?

You also makes hints in your post that you think a player shouldn’t be given time to go to dinner because he will be gone for over an hour, and you could fill that seat with someone else. I think you were just trying to prove a point with regards to this particular situation because as a regular player you obviously don’t think that YOU should be able to take a break without telling someone where you are going, what you are doing and when you return if you will continue playing. People have lives and plans do change. Many times I have gone to dinner and in the course of that time made plans with someone I had not made before. I go back to the game, pick up my chips and leave. That’s life and life intersects with poker.

Poker room management’s job is to make each and every players experience comfortable and enjoyable. If a player is more comfortable taking his chips with him to the restroom or on break, then that’s what he can do. If a player wants to blow that money on craps, hookers or give it to someone on the street while he is on the way to the bathroom, then that what he can do. If he wants to take the allotted time of 1 hour and 15 minutes to go to dinner, then come back to the game and decide he doesn’t like the lineup anymore and leave, then that’s what he can do. And you as a player, are entitled to do all of the same things.

I may have come across a little harsh in my analysis of your situation, but really you were being a nit. Rules are made to benefit all players and be fair in all situations. They are not intended to be tweaked to benefit you when a live one does something that might affect your bottom line in the next few hours.

[phish]

I think you're a nit and should've just minded your own business.

[bpb]

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This seems to be a very specious and self-serving argument. I understand the point in general, but it certainly doesn't address the appropriateness of someone removing moeny from the game in the middle of the game.

Given your logic, they should then be willing to allow me to remove money from the table in the middle of a hand that it looks like I am going to lose. After all, I may go lose it to the casino instead.

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Taking money off the table when you go for a walk (and replacing it when you return) is NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to the same thing as taking money off the table during a hand. Think about how absurd your response was.

Edit: Michael O'Malley's response is dead on.

[shant]

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I am a nit.

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FYP

[bdk3clash]

You fucked up royal by not just being friendly and making the producer want to come back and play after dinner. Thanks for taking food out of my kids' mouths!

The floor decision I don't give a shit about.

[MicroBob]

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Every poker room should or does have a rule that allows a player to take his money off of the table when he leaves. The main reason for this is peace of mind and security.

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Exactly.

I don't play high enough where it makes a difference to me...but I am amazed that more people don't do this.
I guess they think that the casino is watching their money at all times (via cameras and what-not) but there ARE thieves out there who may try to pick off a couple green or black chips (or higher) from your stack and see if they can smoothly get out of there.

If the casino doesn't see it then it's not their fault because it's YOUR money and YOU are responsible for it.

We already know that the casino can't and doesn't see EVERYTHING. Therefore, leaving your money on the table IS giving a situation such as this the potential to happen.



I find it to be something of a contradiction.

You are responsible for your money and if someone happens to rip you off while you're away then it's your fault.

But you are also generally expected to leave your money on the table at all times if you get up to take a leak or grab a bite or whatever.

I'm comforted to know that I actually AM allowed to take a larger than normal amount of money off the table if I so choose.


Note - my B*M background is limited and I really don't know much about the rules and procedures. Just one amateur's observations.

[Derek in NYC]

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You also makes hints in your post that you think a player shouldn’t be given time to go to dinner because he will be gone for over an hour, and you could fill that seat with someone else.

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Another thing is that in most casinos, you absolutely have the right to get up whenever you want. When I feel like taking a dinner break at a table where I want to stay, I wait for the dealer push, play one hand, and leave. When my blind comes around, I get a missed blind button. When the next push comes, and I miss another blind, I get a second button. If there are two buttons in front of my stack at the next push, the floor will bag my chips and call my seat open. But as a matter of course, I can take a 55 minute break, and there isn't a goddamn thing that you or other players can say about it.

[Ulysses]

I was going to post in this thread, but Mike posted pretty much exactly what I was going to write. I agree with all of the points he makes. Most specifically, in your worldview, if I take a dinner break from my NL game with $1,000 in chips and $5,000 in cash sitting behind (or say $5,000 in cash and a $5,000 chip), you want me to leave that stack of $100s and/or big chip sitting there. Give me a break.