PokerTracker: I commit heresy.

[SheridanCat]

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I found I was making bad judgments based on the perceived tendencies of opponents based on stats from too small a sample set.

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Just to be clear, that's not my quote, that's Kurn's. However, I agree that it's very unlikely you will have a meaningful sample to base your opinion of someone else's play upon.

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That's like saying "I kept shearing off lug nuts because I set my torque wrench at 500 pounds, so now I only use a tire iron." If you use a tool improperly, it's going to do harm.


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Yes, which is why I don't think recommending PT to rank beginners is a good idea. That's the same reason I wouldn't recommend a torque wrench to the guy who is changing a tire for the first time.

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Here's a tool that can help, it's your job to figure out how to use it correctly. I'm not going assume anything about your actual ability to do so.

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I just don't share the cynicism here. Why should I recommend a tool to someone I think isn't going to gain from using it? Would you say, "Hey, kid, here's some dynamite. It's great for removing tree trunks and many other things. Have some blasting caps while you're at it. Good luck." I just don't see why we need to make PT out to be such an awesome thing for everyone.

It's an okay tool. That's it. Unnecessary and probably pretty confusing for most people.

Regards,

T

[PuckNPoker]

I found pokertracker invaluable for improving my game. A nightly review of hands after sessions combined with reading micro and SSH really brought a lot of things into focus much quicker than just out their on my own. Stuff like PFR% and VPIP and even AF come into aligntment pretty quickly, where I think it is an invaluable tool is learning WHY the numbers are the way they are. Pokertracker helped me learn poker concepts faster.

[SheridanCat]

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Pokertracker helped me learn poker concepts faster.

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Can you give some examples? I just don't see how that would work. For instance, did PT help you learn about when to checkraise? semi-bluff? bluff?

My goal by asking this isn't just to put you on the spot. If the tool can really be used to help learn concepts, I'd like to understand it so I can use it and pass it on myself.

Regards,

T

[PuckNPoker]

An easy concept yet hard lesson to learn that Poker Tracker helped me get through was sensitivity to position with hand selection. Yes, there are starting hand charts galore. But the WHY as to how those charts are made (and why they differ) became very evident to me after reviewing hands (not only my own but other players, both good and bad) at the end of sessions. I would spend as long reviewing as I did playing and then you kind of get it. THIS situation is where suited connectors shine, THAT situation demands high card value. etc.

The same (for me) happened for PFR % (too low), VPIP (I was too tight actually), CCPF (too high), and AF (which I am working on on a street by street basis). I can systematically identify and work on my leaks. It would have taken a lot longer to identify those leaks without PT.

For an absolute rank beginner, PT is too big of a jump, they need to learn that flushes beat straights, how to read the board, basic stuff like that. But once they get past that point, I think they are ready for PT. Since it will qantify things they may have a hard time quantifying for themselves.

Sure they could get a pad and paper and manually go through all the hand history files, but the sorting and reviewing of specific situations is invaluable. If you want to become a better player, and want a way to both quantify and dissect your game, there really isnt a question about whether a tool like PT will help you learn quicker if you chose to use it. Any other way of learning would require you to apply a concept on future hands, where PT allows you to go back and apply the same concept on past hands. I can go back and look at all my CCPF and see if the CC was justified (for example).

Sure there are a lot of things it cant help you with (bluff as you mentioned, table texture/table image is another), but on the technical points of the game it will get you up and running much faster.

[PuckNPoker]

I think a simpler way of thinking about PT is thinking of like using a video camera on a golfer to help his swing. I might be thinking I'm swinging great and doing all the things that I see the golfer on TV do. But then I see myself on tape and see I am screwing it all up. I bend my arm too much, lift my head, etc. I can see where I am weak so I can work on that part of my swing. Will that camera sitting there TEACH me to play golf, no, but it will help me swing the club better if I choose to use it.

[Wozza]

That's what's so beneficial about reading these posts - there's enough discussion about the various aspects of poker so that beginners like myself (I think I've moved up from 'Newbie') can reach a decision based on the arguments given, rather than accepting something blindly.

For the past few months, all I've been reading about PT is that it's an invaluable tool and no-one has ever questioned that. I was therefore going to treat myself to the software as a matter of course after I progress from the nano to the micro limits.

Now, after reading the very reasonable arguments from both sides I believe I'll still buy it, but now I know some of the reasons why. There seem be be aspects of it from which I'm sure I could benefit.

The use of PT seems to be a subject in itself. What it can actually do, who could benefit, how to interperate the zillions of facts 'n' figures etc etc. Maybe this is an area where everyone who has experience using it can help out by adding to that existing subject in the wiki.

[TheTROLL]

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"Hey, kid, here's some dynamite. It's great for removing tree trunks and many other things. Have some blasting caps while you're at it. Good luck."

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Tree trunks. Bah! It's for getting rid of WHALES.