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  #1  
Old 12-20-2005, 06:27 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 1-table tournaments
Posts: 1,537
Default Play from the blinds: KQs ($33)

I've already decided that I prefer a different line on this hand, but remaining true to my word, I said I'd post hands that I know I botched.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Scuba (t1040)
UTG (t580)
UTG+1 (t990)
UTG+2 (t615)
MP1 (t770)
MP2 (t815)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t775)
Button (t575)
SB (t1065)

Preflop: Scuba is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t30, SB completes, Scuba checks.

Flop: (t150) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Scuba bets t150</font>

Results:
<font color="white"> everyone folded </font>
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2005, 06:29 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs

I think this is fine, I might lead for 100 instead. I assume you prefer c/r'ing all-in instead?
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:27 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Location: 1-table tournaments
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Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is fine, I might lead for 100 instead. I assume you prefer c/r'ing all-in instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, or see the free card.
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:31 PM
GtrHtr GtrHtr is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 350
Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is fine, I might lead for 100 instead. I assume you prefer c/r'ing all-in instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, or see the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

deja vu. I assume the c/r push option concerns FE but I cannot remember why...
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:37 PM
ilya ilya is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Party Poker
Posts: 460
Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs ($33)

I dunno that I like such a big bet, you've made the pot so big that if he's going for a c-raise he's probably gonna just go all-in. Even if he doesn't, you won't really have any FE for your 3-bet.

What about betting something like 90? If he check-raises, you 3-bet all-in. The pot won't be big enough really for him to c-r all-in, and he might be able to fold to your 3-bet. It'll also be less ugly if he just calls the flop and the turn bricks.

I doubt you'll get an Ace-high flush draw to fold anyway.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:40 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Posts: 240
Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs ($33)

I would never bet this flop like you did. Sometimes it makes sense to make a smallish bet to try to "keep the betting small", however my normal play would be to check. Im not looking to get allin on the flop here, I have no illusions that someone who raises my flop bet in the middle of 5 handed action is likely to fold to an allin.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:46 PM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs ($33)

[ QUOTE ]
I would never bet this flop like you did. Sometimes it makes sense to make a smallish bet to try to "keep the betting small", however my normal play would be to check. Im not looking to get allin on the flop here, I have no illusions that someone who raises my flop bet in the middle of 5 handed action is likely to fold to an allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you're talking about? I don't care so much for the 3 betting route, per Ilya. I just think that if we have 50% pot equity here often enough that it's worth it to play this pot. Whatever strategy that is. But I can't imagine folding anywhere on the flop with this hand.
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:10 PM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs ($33)

Your spending your chips for the wrong reason, at the wrong time.

IMO you should be looking to -- keep the pot small, while waiting to improve -OR- moving aggressively, once there are enough chips in the pot to warrent the risk...with the latter not being particularly mandatory.

Your line accomplishes neither. Leading (even full pot) 5-way is not going to take the pot down often enough. You will either find yourself unimproved, still OOP on the turn, facing now a very large pot (with a further committed opponent), or you will be met with a substantial reraise - maybe for all your chips. Are you willing to CALL your chips AI here with the second-nut, non-paired flush draw in L2? Because that's essentially what you'd be doing when considering "I can't imagine folding anywhere on the flop with this hand" by taking this strong lead line.

Your best case scenarios with your line are 1) they all fold, or 2) you ONLY get called, and hit the 4:1 on the turn (and we don't run into the pesky nut-flusher).

I agree that not folding the flop acceptable. But only when YOU are in the position to maximize your FE, putting someone to the test for all of their chips, after THEIR lead (perhaps after making a small 'controlling' lead).

Check-calling with the odds to do so of course is the other option.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:18 PM
ilya ilya is offline
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Default Re: Play from the blinds: KQs ($33)

Ok I'm an idiot. I thought you were HU against the SB. With the other players in I would check looking to probably call, maybe fold, and maaaaybe CRAI on the flop.
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