2-4 hand by noobie

[joewatch]

Hello,
I'm a long-time LHE, NLHE and PLO player just getting into 7CS. Haven't touched a book yet, but logged a few hours with Wilson Turbo before hitting the tables for the first time this evening. I'm thinking I should be value betting more on the river at small stakes, but not sure. All comments on my play welcome:

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

Seat 1: $103.25
Seat 2: $34.75
Seat 3: $75.50
Seat 4: $38.25
Seat 5: $64.50
Seat 7: $26.50
Hero: $107

3rd Street - (0.88 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (2.38 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.19 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (4.19 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

River - (6.19 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks

Total pot: (6.19 BB)

[Aquarian]

Hi,

With 2 dead T's I would lean towards a fold on 3rd here.

I would probably value bet 7th. You have a scary board
here that could be a str8, a flush or trip J and you have
bet on most streets.

They may even only call you with trip 4's here. If they raise
they probably have you beat. They havent shown any strength
at all during the hand so I would probably bet out.

Aq.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

With 2 dead T's I would lean towards a fold on 3rd here.

I would probably value bet 7th. You have a scary board
here that could be a str8, a flush or trip J and you have
bet on most streets.

They may even only call you with trip 4's here. If they raise
they probably have you beat. They havent shown any strength
at all during the hand so I would probably bet out.

Aq.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would go opposite and lean towards a raise here on 3rd to try to get it heads up with the ten door, especially since all the scary cards bailed out already. With the 2 dead tens, it is less likely that he has a pair already and will be tougher for him to improve. He is probably on a draw and if he bricks you can hopefully pick up the pot on 4th.

[Jeffage]

I would raise 3rd street here since it's unlikely he has a pair of 10's. Also, I'd bet the river since you will be called by a worse two pair pretty sometimes and won't be raised by aces up much of the time.

Jeff

[joewatch]

[ QUOTE ]
I would raise 3rd street here since it's unlikely he has a pair of 10's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I'd bet the river since you will be called by a worse two pair pretty sometimes and won't be raised by aces up much of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are players really that dumb? I would think that since I showed strength on 4th and I'm showing a pair of jacks, the worst hand I could possibly have is JJ22. So I could only imagine being called by a better hand. My plan was to check-call 7th.

[Jeffage]

Many players will pay off two lower pair here, some won't of course. The thing is, players like to put you on a hand you can beat...maybe here you started with a three flush and just happened to catch a pair, etc. People like to call. That being said, OOP I think this is a defensive bet. If you check here, the only hand that will bet is a hand that can beat jacks up typically. If you bet, you probably won't be raised by a bigger two pair, but you MAY get called by a worse two pair (or even a big pair possibly). Thus, I believe betting has a better expectation than checking here. This same principle would apply heads up if you started with say (A,K) A and kept betting but never improved. If you've indicated aces the whole way and then check, your opponent will know to bet any two pair but he won't bet if he can't beat aces. Yet if you bet, he may call anyway. Just my take...

Jeff

[MRBAA]

Read Jeff's post carefully -- betting when you may be beaten but can get called by worse hands is where you make a ton of your money in stud. It's a big part of the difference between you and your opponents.

[BeerMoney]

Jeff and MRBAA are right.. Read TOP's betting HU on the river first to act. Its actually awesome how clear sklansky makes this.

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]
Are players really that dumb?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who you callin' dumb? You really haven't shown a hell of a lot of strength on fourth. You're between a guy who has checked and the bring-in. Unless my opponents are very loose, I'm betting in this spot approximately 100% of the time. Your board is a bit scary, but you will be paid off by two smaller pair a fair amount of the time. Also, while I'm not usually one to bet and fold to a raise, it is wildly unlikely that the other guy will raise as a bluff, so you can safely fold to a raise.

The best argument I see for checking the river is that the other guy will probably be too skeered to value-bet trips or a bigger two pair. Sometimes, you bet in these spots because the money's going in anyway. I don't think that that's the case here.

Calling third was fine, but raising is probably a little better. Everything else looks fine.

[benwood]

3rd:I would complete.It's very likely that you have the best hand at this point.

River:The river bet is better than the check because(1)If you check & they have 2 pair,they will check behind.But if you bet, they will call with 2 smaller pr.(Yes,they are that dumb.)So checking will cost you a bet with 2 smaller pr.(2)Your 3-straight/3-flush boord will usually keep a raise from happening.But if they do raise into that board,you can throw your hand away,knowing you are beat.So,the bet can gain you a bet,but it is not likely to cost you one.