Are stud games juicier than holdem?

[peritonlogon]

I'd like to here other people's opinion. I started playing Holdem about 2 years ago, and switched to Stud as my primary game about 4-5 months ago. Does anyone else think that games in the low and mid limits online are way easier than their holdem counter parts? I find this both fortunate and perplexing. Is holdem just that much easier not to play terribly? After all there are manyfold more new holdem players than new stud players.

[bigredlemon]

holdem is unquestioanbly juicer. I play stud because its more fun, and less variance in stud8.

[djr]

I play holdem, stud, and O8. There are more holdem people because it's a simpler (in theory) game and it's a lot more of a gambling thrill. YOu only have to deal with 7 cards in holdem, in stud to do it right you need to be paying attention to 15+ cards. From my experience, NL holdem is the juiciest game you can find. But stud is nicer for variance and I find it more mentally stimulating.

[10-20Jerome]

Depends on the players, get a couple of rocks in there that fold pairs with a strong kicker u cant win. Get a couple of holdem players in there watch out. They get AK4 there in there raiseing and reraiseing. Something intresting about stud is the memeory it takes to win consistanly. A player could be drawing dead and not know it. If you know what cards are out and there is no reshuffle you have a huge advantage. EX. I take pots on the river alot guys are showing 4567
im holding 88 two 8s folded 3 threes gone one three left guy bets on 5th I call bets again on 6th i see the case 3 fall some where else I raise probably the 2nd best hand here. Now the guy who caught the three starts to think ummmm,my pocket 10s are looking bad if hes a soild player hell muck. leaving me and the guy drawing to a dead str8 and probaly some over cards in the hole. Even if they hit there over card on the river they still might fold. This guy just reraised when I had a 4 str8 showing he must be strong. No thats juicey to me. This is a extreme sitituion but it happens from time to time espically when your there 50hrs a week. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
im holding 88 two 8s folded

[/ QUOTE ]


You play dead 8s? Shame on you! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[bigredlemon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im holding 88 two 8s folded

[/ QUOTE ]


You play dead 8s? Shame on you! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]He said it was a juicy game, he didn't say where the juice was coming from [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[10-20Jerome]

You guys are missunderstanding the hand im talking about. Of course I played the eights, as matter of fact I rasied with them 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] everone folded but two people. There were no kings or As in front or behind me on 3rd. Im telling you what works over time just if you dont belive me thats cool to.

If you want to win and make a decent living you cant just sit there and wait. The people who win enough to support the familys with extras like vactions (on one now!) dont play normal. If you play normal you will scrape out very litle in the long run, and sit there rubbing your head when you get AAKK frist four cards shoved down your throat by what you thought was a "bad play". Im just saying that stud in generally has the potenal to have bigger profit then holdem if you play according to what they have not what you have. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Roland]

Hey man, take it easy. We were both kidding.
It was kind of hard to tell from your post, but I’m guessing you played those 8s as a steal with two dead treys behind you or something. Nothing wrong with that.

Btw, you play for a living, right? Since you said you play 50 hours a week…

And enjoy your vacation. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[10-20Jerome]

I cant type right i did not mean for it to come across like that [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] After reading it i see what you mean. sorry. But I dont talk at the table so this a way for me to express myself Ill try harder to be more polite. By the way Ive already posted something else before I read this so if seems rude again sorry

[grapes]

I can't say much specifically about low and mid limit online games (as the question asked) - it's been a few years since I've played stud at those limits, and longer for hold'em.

At mid- (30-60 and up) and high (75-150 and up?) limits, the live games are much better at hold'em these days. From my own experience, they've been better ever since I started playing these limits (the past 3-4 years or so), but stud is getting much worse these days.

In January/February I went to Commerce for the LA Poker Classic. There was mostly always a 30/60 stud game going, which was just okay. Occasionally, there was a 50/100 game, also fairly tough with some weak spots. Above that, there was a wild (read very loose-aggressive) but pretty tough 100/200 game. By contrast, at one point on a Friday evening there were 14(!) full tables of generally juicy 40/80 hold'em.

I'm in my room at the Rio right now for the WSOP, and the situation for stud is much worse here than in LA. The only cash stud game I've seen at any limit at the Rio has been a $50/100 stud/8b game, full of players I recognized from other big tournaments. At the Bellagio, there's been a $40/80 stud game during the day most days with a terrible structure ($5 ante, $10 bring-in). When I asked to get on the list, the floorman asked, "aren't you about 50 years too young to be playing in that game?" There's been no 75/150 stud, and there was a tough 100/200 once on the weekend that I've seen. I haven't looked at the lower limits, but I was talking about stud with one of the dealers who said they rarely get even the $1-5 spread limit game anymore - and this is at the one place in Vegas for stud the past few years. I stopped in to check out the poker room at the Wynn, and was told that they never get stud games going.

The situation for tournaments is worse. Stud fields here at the World Series have been about 10-25% the size of hold'em events. Same at Commerce. Worse, it seems that the players who are playing the stud events also are very good; that there's very few average to clueless amateurs entering.

I've played all 3 stud and stud/8 events so far, and am most likely going to play Thursday in the $5,000 stud. I'll post thoughts and stories if people are interested later. One thing that stands out is the general second-class treatment stud is getting here, which will only drive more players away from the game. At least five times that I can remember, after the 3rd street betting completes dealers have burned a card and turned up a flop. Several have stopped after dealing the hole cards, and needed to be reminded that there are upcards in stud. Yesterday's $2000 stud/8 event was at 2pm following the noon PLO event, and for several hours all the clocks around the room had the info on the Omaha event, meaning that the stud players couldn't see how long until the next break or the limits increased.

Last year ESPN covered both stud events (not sure about a stud/8?), but this year dropped the $1500 to cover another hold'em event.

I know this is not really what the original post asked about, but it might be something to consider. I'm sure there are very good low limit games available online, but presumably you'd like to eventually move up into bigger games. For live cash games and tournaments, as much as I hate to say it, hold'em is the game these days. I'd like to think that stud will eventually make a comeback, but all the signs seem to be pointing in the wrong direction.