Flopped Flush

partypokerer · #1 10-27-2005, 09:01 PM

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (7 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

surfdoc · #2 10-27-2005, 09:06 PM

Why let the turn get checked through. You hold all the good cards and he still raised the flop. Bet, bet, bet. A lot of coldcalling hands connect with this flop. He won't give you credit for the flush and find a fold. Plus there are the times when he has KQ and decides to raise the turn.

UncleSalty · #3 10-27-2005, 09:07 PM

This limit is way over my head, but I don't understand the turn check here. The pot is pretty enormous, so it seems that people would call down with any piece of the board. Are you trying to induce a river bluff here?

Jerkass333 · #4 10-27-2005, 09:11 PM

I told you this already, but I feel the forum can benefit from my advice aswell: I dont like going for the turn c/r when I'm the one finishing the betting on the flop. You want him to put you on a flush draw, but the reason your line is standard for a draw is that it works pretty well in giving that reverse free-card action so I wouldn't count on them betting when you have the flush. He's scared of you. Would have been pretty badass if it worked though.

baronzeus · #5 10-27-2005, 09:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This limit is way over my head, but I don't understand the turn check here. The pot is pretty enormous, so it seems that people would call down with any piece of the board. Are you trying to induce a river bluff here?

[/ QUOTE ]

hes trying to make his hand look like the nut flush draw, hoping that MP will bet to protect his hand, and he can checkraise the field for two bets.

i like it. someone did this to me today, cept i was on hte receiving end :-\. sry that it didnt work [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

PS i think it could go either way, and the EV is very close, probably better the way you played it, if MP is aggressive)

Jeff W · #6 10-27-2005, 09:14 PM

Betting is underrated.

NLSoldier · #7 10-27-2005, 09:18 PM

I like it. I think so of the haters would like it more if you had stopped the action with your turn check.

UncleSalty · #8 10-27-2005, 09:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This limit is way over my head, but I don't understand the turn check here. The pot is pretty enormous, so it seems that people would call down with any piece of the board. Are you trying to induce a river bluff here?

[/ QUOTE ]

hes trying to make his hand look like the nut flush draw, hoping that MP will bet to protect his hand, and he can checkraise the field for two bets.

i like it. someone did this to me today, cept i was on hte receiving end :-\. sry that it didnt work [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

PS i think it could go either way, and the EV is very close, probably better the way you played it, if MP is aggressive)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't the nut flush draw bet in this spot to protect against gutshots? I would think a turn bet is more likely to be interpreted as a semibluff (flush draw) than a check. Is anyone going to fold to a turn bet with such a draw-heavy board when the pot is this big? Maybe this is level five thinking and I'm still on level 3?

baronzeus · #9 10-27-2005, 09:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This limit is way over my head, but I don't understand the turn check here. The pot is pretty enormous, so it seems that people would call down with any piece of the board. Are you trying to induce a river bluff here?

[/ QUOTE ]

hes trying to make his hand look like the nut flush draw, hoping that MP will bet to protect his hand, and he can checkraise the field for two bets.

i like it. someone did this to me today, cept i was on hte receiving end :-\. sry that it didnt work [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

PS i think it could go either way, and the EV is very close, probably better the way you played it, if MP is aggressive)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't the nut flush draw bet in this spot to protect against gutshots? I would think a turn bet is more likely to be interpreted as a semibluff (flush draw) than a check. Is anyone going to fold to a turn bet with such a draw-heavy board when the pot is this big? Maybe this is level five thinking and I'm still on level 3?

[/ QUOTE ]

well on the turn the nut flush draw has very little equity against a good made hand -- somewhere between 20 and 25% i'd guess. so you want to put in as few bets as possible on the turn---aka you dont want to get raised here. if you get raised, you're putting in 2bets as a 75/25 dog and you knock out UTG, killing your implied odds a bit and your immediate pot equity (because even with UTG in the hand you still own 20-25 ish % of the pot).

so the thought is, if you hold A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you check and call a bet rather than betting, because a king is never folding here, and something like 2 pair or a set MIGHT raise your bet, and will some % of the time check behind and give you a free card.

there are many times with some really really strong draws where the flop gets capped several ways i check/call the turn despite capping teh flop.

Victor · #10 10-27-2005, 09:42 PM

i dont know much about 30/60 but in most poker ppl like to make free card plays on flopped 3 flush boards. thats why i bet the turn.