VP IP stats

I'm about to wade into very dangerous waters where many an innocent have been flamed. I know talking about win rate is a no no until you've got a gazillion hands under your belt but hopefully it's ok to talk about VPip after 16k odd hands?

It's the one part of my stats I'm a bit worried about. I've had a look at This stats post and my stats all seem to match up to what they should be except my VPIP is around 30. Is this waaaay too high to maintain a winrate? I normally find tables where 2 or 3 people have VPip above 50, does this make a difference?

Youre VPip is way too high to maintain a winrate. You need to read or reread small stakes holdem by ed miller. I may be wrong, but I am convinced that anyone with a Vpip of 30% in a full game is destined to go broke no matter how well he plays postflop. I hope you take this post seriously since your financial health will be at stake, good luck to you in the future.

A sobering response and I assure you I'm taking it very seriously. What kind of vpip stats would SSH's hand charts produce for Tight games recommendation? What about the Loose games chart?

[Octopus]

Depends on your opponents. (The more aggressive they are, the less you play.) Somewhere in the high teens.

This is full, yes? Short-handed 30% is probably only a little high.

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A sobering response and I assure you I'm taking it very seriously. What kind of vpip stats would SSH's hand charts produce for Tight games recommendation? What about the Loose games chart?

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I think vpip stats are more affected by how aggressive or passive a game is than how loose or tight it is. But to repeat what I once read in the micro-limits post, your VPip should fall between 15% and 20%. Some players can win with a slightly lower VPip than this range and some can win with a slightly higher Vpip than this range. If you follow Ed Miller's charts your VPip will be surpisingly close to the 15% range in a tight game, and closer to 20% in a loose game. But I will repeat if you are in an aggressive game, you should be playing very tight whether the game is loose or tight.

thanks for the response Westley. I'm going to be a lot more strict on myself from now on. No more, 'Ah what the hell lets see what happens to my K 10 from UTG' for me

[Harv72b]

Obviously, the game that you're playing in is going to affect your VPIP (as well as other stats), and it's not a matter of "your VPIP must be between X and Y in order to consistently beat the game". So I will disagree with the other poster to a point--I do think it's possible for a very good player to beat a bunch of very bad opponents while maintaining a VPIP of around 30. But those conditions are unlikely to remain static over a sample as large as 16k hands, especially in an online environment.

So yes, somewhere between 15 and 20% is what is considered "good" for a full ring, limit HE game. The less experience you have (and notionally, the more trouble you have with your postflop game), the lower your VPIP should be. As you get more comfortable in reading opponents & playing hands postflop, you can loosen up to closer to that 20 number (or perhaps slightly higher). Note that you should be repeating this cycle every time you move up limits, too.

Note also that the more tables you play, the lower your VPIP likely should be. When playing 4 or more tables at a time, you're not going to be able to play particular enough attention to each opponent in each game to play a lot of borderline hands/situations....and since many of the people who volunteered their stats for CallMeIshmael's post multi-table to some extent or another, that will have had an effect on the numbers you see there, including VPIP.