You want weak tight?

tolbiny · #1 12-07-2005, 12:48 AM

You can't handle weak tight!!!

utg is 31/22 with 1.8 post flop agression (600 hands)
c/o is 21/14 with 1.5 aggression (300 hands)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, CO raises, Hero folds

TStoneMBD · #2 12-07-2005, 01:09 AM

thats usually how i play queens too. call 3 bets cold and checkfold a ragged flop. if i flop a set i usually stick around until at least the turn.

wdcbooks · #3 12-07-2005, 01:15 AM

Great line, but why not just fold them preflop?

Honestly there are a lot of hands that you are beating badly here that would play this way. AKc, TT, JJ, 88, AJc or something like AKo just for the hell of it. Not to mention that you may have the best club. That and your set outs alone are almost worth it.

This looks like a hand from some freaky double ring game (20 people max). You do play that fun 6 max game where you get to cap 88 if you feel like it? Right?

#4 12-07-2005, 01:16 AM

"My mouse slipped and fell on the fold button."

wdcbooks · #5 12-07-2005, 01:20 AM

I think there is an urgent bathroom break in the middle of this hand tolbiny isn't telling us about.

Victor · #6 12-07-2005, 01:28 AM

both players seem competent. will all the haters please give some hand ranges so that tolbiny can see how far ahead he was?

climber · #7 12-07-2005, 01:43 AM

Your right I cant handle it!
OK I've never used Pokerstove to do this but think I am doing it right--tell me if I am doing somethign wrong here.

Preflop:
UTG give him 17% of his hands
66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+
UTG+1 cuts his 3-betting range to maybe 6% of his hands
88+,ATs+,KQs,AKo
You QQ

Pokerstove says:
UTG has 21.5% equity
UTG+1 has 31.7% equity
You have 46.8% equity

CAP IT ALREADY!!!

Flop:7c, 4s, 9c
(Edited cause I'm not good at this)

UTG preflop capper leads out...even if we cut his preflop range back to 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo (5% of his hands) you still have the most equity:
UTG : 30.8%
UTG+1 : 27%
You : 42.2%

HORRIBLE FOLD!

TStoneMBD · #8 12-07-2005, 01:51 AM

in honesty i had to take a minute to decide if your flop fold is reasonable or not. i would definitely cap preflop for sure. i cap much worse than that.

having said that i think you should 3bet the flop but i could see folding this in the game especially if i had a read.

Victor · #9 12-07-2005, 01:53 AM

your flop calculations are way off bc we have the added info of utg capping. that narrows his range greatly.

wdcbooks · #10 12-07-2005, 01:56 AM

I didn't mean to come across as an ass. I just think you are giving too much credit to the other players' hands. A player with UTG's stats will cap and lead on principle alone. I know I would. If I am three bet after raising UTG I always cap and usually lead. CO likely has a pair of some sort. We have done nothing to define what flavor of pair he has.

I have been working on doing everything I can to win big pots. Many good players will raise much more liberally in big pots to try to win them, even if they think they are likely behind. The pot is too big and you are too likely to be good to fold yet. I am willing to be convinced, but it isn't folding time yet.

You also have to look at what hand your opponents believe you have. You have done nothing to represent a hand as strong as what you have. It isn't surprising that they believe that they can make you drop out on the flop. You have gained some deception by not capping preflop. Based on your preflop action I would put you on a small pair hoping to hit a set or mid decent high suited cards like KQs or AT-AJ.