Flop action?

[BWebb]

Put me in the checkraise camp. I understand the flop bet/hope for a raise line to knock out some middling spades, but I don't think that is necessary in this hand. With the hand having 6 players to the flop, I think players are less likely to think their 9 or 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is going to be enough to take this down. Also, with the K and J being on the board, there are only 2 cards we would want and hope to get rid of (the 9 and 10). If the flop were 7-6-2 of spades, it would be more important to try and force out middle spades because there would be more of them. Plus, if the BB is going to raise a flop bet, he'd probably be very likely to 3-bet a checkraise, which will also face the field with two bets.

[bobdibble]

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I think players are less likely to think their 9 or 10 is going to be enough to take this down.

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I was thinking more of someone that had something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] who would try to draw for an ace but could accidently hit a flush. (Not that they should be doing this, but I see it fairly often on boards like this.) Suppose the 4th spade comes on the river and the original flop bettor checks... the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will probably check, but I'd be willing to bet that they will call if the only river bet comes from late position. I see people call with that kind of crap all the time if they hit a weak draw with their kicker.

[BWebb]

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I think players are less likely to think their 9 or 10 is going to be enough to take this down.

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I was thinking more of someone that had something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] who would try to draw for an ace but could accidently hit a flush. (Not that they should be doing this, but I see it fairly often on boards like this.) Suppose the 4th spade comes on the river and the original flop bettor checks... the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will probably check, but I'd be willing to bet that they will call if the only river bet comes from late position. I see people call with that kind of crap all the time if they hit a weak draw with their kicker.

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I kind of implied in my post with the "hope to fold" comment but didn't say specifically is that the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is the third nut draw on that board. Some players won't fold that draw, especially if they have something like A-10 that adds a straight draw. I think there are players that will fold the 9 or 10 of [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on that board because it was multiway. Also, there are players who will NOT fold 9-10 of [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on that board because it is the 3rd nut draw. Basically, the chances that those cards are out plus the chances we make them fold with a bet/PF raiser raises line is worth less than the money we make by going for a checkraise. I hope that makes sense, I'm at work so I'm trying to type fast.

[mike l.]

"With the hand having 6 players to the flop, I think players are less likely to think their 9s or 10s is going to be enough to take this down."

so you think most 20-40 players are going to readily make that same analysis and commonly fold those cards on the flop for one bet (presumably from the bb)? think again.

[BWebb]

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"With the hand having 6 players to the flop, I think players are less likely to think their 9s or 10s is going to be enough to take this down."

so you think most 20-40 players are going to readily make that same analysis and commonly fold those cards on the flop for one bet (presumably from the bb)? think again.

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If they are definitely not going to fold for one bet, how sure can we be they will fold for two? (This is really a question, not a smart ass remark, for I don't normally play this high.)

My earlier post doesn't make much sense. I was posting at work and trying to hurry through it. I don't like a bet here because we are looking to fold only two cards, the 9 and 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], should they be out. The A and Q are obviously not going anywhere no matter if its one or two bets to them. The chances of this getting checked through are slim because:

1) We have a flop that very likely hit a preflop raising hand.

2) It's six handed.

3) It's monotone. This flop hit somebody and most people, good or bad, are aware enough to bet this flop if they hav e a top pair type hand for fear of the free card. I don't see how the strategy to bet the flop, which is counting on a raise from BB, can be supported with the idea that if we check it could get checked around. True, we are definitely getting money in if we bet, but most of the argument for leading out is for the BB to raise to protect our hand. Plus, I want to get the most money in this pot, not just some. I've never played in an East Coast 20/40 game, but I just don't see THIS flop getting checked through.

IMO, we flopped a monster. True, a bet out might get the 9-10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to fold if BB raises. However, I think passing up on the opportunity to checkraise the field in order to try and get two cards to fold is giving up too much value.

as much as i love to check raise i think you have to bet and bet hard...to much chance of it being checked and another spade hitting. Worst case is you get raised or reraised and you lose one small bet (assuming you can get away from this) rather than the two bets you lose if you check raise and get reraised

[Solami17]

You have to bet here!

[heykev]

I like to lead out and call here on flop and put in check raise on turn. If bb is willing to raise flop he is probably going to bet turn.

[Victor]

look left. if hes gonna bet, go for the cr. if you cant tell, just bet. you cant go wrong putting money in with the best hand.

[mike l.]

bet into the bb and hope he raises giving people the chance to fold hands with the Ts and 9s.