KTs annoyance

Piiop · #1 09-12-2005, 04:46 PM

Party Pokar! 10/20 Full table, 9-handed.

I have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Preflop: 2 folds, I raise, CO cold-calls, SB 3bets, BB folds, I call, CO calls.

I decided to raise this here because the table had been playing kind of tight and 2 of the 3 worst players had folded (UTG and UTG+1) and the 3rd is in the SB. The CO is unknown to me. A hand or two ago he had 69s on the button and played a flopped flush kind of passively, tho there was a lot of action and someone ended up having the nut flush. I've played against the SB a ton and he's bad. His stats are 30/6/1.2 after 4600 hands. His 3bet here is AK o/s or JJ+.

Flop (10sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets, I call, CO raises, SB calls, I....

SBs bet doesn't narrow his range any, but his call does. He has QQ or JJ. He'll probably call down, but might fold the river. The CO displeases me. I'm happy about my K but not about my kicker. What should my plan be here?

Fold flop?
Call flop, fold turn unimproved?
Call flop, call turn, fold river ui?
Call down ui?
Put in more than 1 bet on the big streets ui?

hobbsmann · #2 09-12-2005, 04:53 PM

you need to peel here as your hand can greatly improve on the turn if you pick up draws. Also if your read is correct on SB he will essentially just be padding the pot for you when you are behind. I'm tempted to call the flop raise and possibly peel the turn as well depending on how things progress, but wouldn't be against check folding given the bried read you've provided for CO.

@bsolute_luck · #3 09-12-2005, 05:45 PM

i don't play 10/20 (is that small stakes?), but why not raise this flop?

KDawgCometh · #4 09-12-2005, 05:52 PM

I think the flop is a call. I think we'd need to reevaluate the turn. I think I might just be as lost as you

The Goober · #5 09-12-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop is a call. I think we'd need to reevaluate the turn. I think I might just be as lost as you

[/ QUOTE ]

I was actually thinking that I like a raise on the flop. OP seems to think that SB would 3-bet AA-KK,AK, so we can easily get away from the hand on the turn if we are 3-bet. Given the stated range of SB, we are more likely to be behind then ahead, but the pot is big enough to fight for, imo. CO could have anything at this point (so far we've just seen him call), but there's a small but real chance that we could get him to fold KQ or KJ, which would be great.

The thing I don't like about waiting for the turn is that I don't think we are going to get much more information. As the hand played out, its very likely that it will go check, check, bet, call - then what? We still don't know where we are. I suppose CO could take a free card on the turn, but it doesn't seem likely with this board. I suppose if one of our backdoor draws turns into a real draw we'd be glad we just called the flop, but I don't think that's going to happen often enough to warrant the flop call.

Piiop · #6 09-12-2005, 07:42 PM

I'm not sure a flop raise is a good idea. I am basically thinking about it like a WA/WB situation, however there's a 3rd player stuck in there. CO won't have very many outs, however he's getting good odds on the flop for a lot of stuff. Yet, if he is a passive/bad player, it's possible he'll call 2 on the flop some of the time anyway, which is good for me.

Some of my outs are dirty so I don't really like my backdoor draws. If I'm putting the SB on exactly QQ/JJ then my backdoor straight draw isn't looking too nice and it taints the Q and J of hearts somewhat.

hobbsmann · #7 09-12-2005, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure a flop raise is a good idea. I am basically thinking about it like a WA/WB situation, however there's a 3rd player stuck in there. CO won't have very many outs, however he's getting good odds on the flop for a lot of stuff. Yet, if he is a passive/bad player, it's possible he'll call 2 on the flop some of the time anyway, which is good for me.

Some of my outs are dirty so I don't really like my backdoor draws. If I'm putting the SB on exactly QQ/JJ then my backdoor straight draw isn't looking too nice and it taints the Q and J of hearts somewhat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah flop raise is bad I agree with the WA/WB assessment. As for the action the pot is big enough even with tainted outs we should peel a turn card and then reevaluate.

Bill C · #8 09-12-2005, 08:03 PM

10-20 is higher than I usually play, so take that into account when reading my ideas:
I like the WA/WB idea here. There is a hand in SSH on p291 that has some features in common with this hand, and he calls the flop to set up a raise on the turn if a blank falls (or a bet if SB checks) to protect the hand. If you are going to the river, a turn 3-bet would be a good play, looking far ahead and assuming the turn doesn't come a killer card and you are raised.

I feel like there's a very good chance here that you have the best hand. The pot is way too big to consider any folding options you listed.

I appreciate your post of this hand which is very helpful to me, and I hope my comments are not too inane. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

BTW, is Piiop actually your name? And if not, what does it mean?

bc