Open Kings Short Handed

beta1607 · #1 05-18-2005, 11:00 PM

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.5, Bring-In $2 (hand converter)

3rd Street

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___double bets___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

My only notes on villan is that he defends his bring-ins with a wide range, not that that is useful here.

I felt unsure about my manhood after this fold, but I think it was the right play. How bad is not raising 3rd - I felt like I coulda avoided this confusion by doing that? What about just calling down for metagame reasons as villan is a regular?

lstream · #2 05-18-2005, 11:10 PM

I would not have folded fourth, especially for one more small bet. Your hearts and kings are live, so you had a lot of room for improvement on fifth. If you catch a brick on fifth, then folding could be re-considered. If you really know the opponent here, and believe he has trips, then maybe the fold is OK.

I would not want opponents to believe that I can be knocked off a hand that easily, but I probably hold on to a hand too hard.

timmer · #3 05-18-2005, 11:53 PM

did the action start short handed ?

I mean was there only 4 people seated in the game ?

timmer

beta1607 · #4 05-19-2005, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
did the action start short handed ?

I mean was there only 4 people seated in the game ?

timmer

[/ QUOTE ]

yes - we started 4 handed the table was breaking up, which makes me more likely think (xA)A is more likely to not complete, but I dont know.

Andy B · #5 05-19-2005, 12:13 AM

He made the big bet, so the raise was also a big bet. Folding can't be too far wrong, although you can't make too many of these folds, or people will start to run you over.

templar999 · #6 05-19-2005, 12:24 AM

beta,

my experience is mostly in b&m at 10/20. havent played online in quite awhile, so your experience will have to be your best guide. IMO, good laydown, not because i fear trips or aces up, but because your hand is nearly impossible to play heads up against one aggressive opponent. my reasoning, in order of importance:

1. your positional disadvantage. this is probably key. you will be first to act in all betting rounds, unless he makes an open pair of aces, in which case you'll have to fold. i'm assuming, perhaps improperly, that a player at 5/10 is aware of this. alas, you will never know where you stand with him.
2. your dead king. an aggressive player should and will pummel you with chips whenever you have dead cards. he might even have the case king.
3. if you're ahead, you're not that far ahead if he has a pair with an ace kicker. if your hole cards offered you an ace or a straight draw in addition to the three flush, i'd advocate taking a card off.
4. pot is still small. the time to get away is now. what do you do if you catch a 9 or a 6? you cant really bet for value. you might be going to showdown drawing to 3 outs.

your thoughts?

respectfully,
temp

RandomUser · #7 05-19-2005, 12:47 AM

Folding is probably the safest bet, but I generally will call and see one more card. You are drawing to 18 cards to improve.

A tricky villain could be raising here with any number of hands here. Your double bet screams that you only have 2 Ks and raising with AT is going to put a lot of pressure on you to fold.

templar999 · #8 05-19-2005, 01:36 AM

apologies, for some reason i thought one of your kings was dead. ignore point #2.

beta1607 · #9 05-19-2005, 01:43 AM

Villan doesn't need trips to have me crushed, although this his line seems like a slow played monster or a complete bluff.

If I call and catch a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on 5th or make 2 pair should I call down? Would I be getting odds to call down with a flush draw?

templar999 · #10 05-19-2005, 01:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding is probably the safest bet, but I generally will call and see one more card. You are drawing to 18 cards to improve.

A tricky villain could be raising here with any number of hands here. Your double bet screams that you only have 2 Ks and raising with AT is going to put a lot of pressure on you to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

random,

i think 18 cards to improve is a large overestimate. the six outs from the 9s and 6s get you to two pair. but then what? how do you proceed? if kings up is good at 5th street, how do you protect your hand? the ten hearts improve you to kings and four flush. with 2 cards to come, you're still not a favorite to make it. one of the two kings is nice, but you have no implied odds and will only get a better hand to call.

as for tricky villains, i cant imagine too many players messing around and getting too fancy when you make open kings on fourth street.

respectfully,
temp