Stars 25K Guarenteed Rebuy Strategy?

[radii]

I did a couple of searches and didn't find anything recent... if there are old threads on the topic I'd love to be pointed to them.

I'm curious if there have been discussions on the max number of rebuys that one should make in the first hour of the very loose 10pm $11R tourneys on Stars. Is there a defined number here based on the number of entrants/expected prize pool? If I spend $70 between rebuys and add-on am I generally taking a losing proposition, or is there a calcualted number here based on some factors?

Additionally, how many chips (compared to... average stack? other large stacks? place in standings?) would one need to consider not adding on after the first hour?

[Chief911]

Some answers:

The max number of buyins is really a hard thing to ask, because that's going to depend on the number of times you go broke and have to rebuy. If you are asking how loose you should play, that's a whole different topic. I dont think that $70 on rebuys is too much. It is more than the average though. I believe average prize pool of this event is about 45 to 50k, so with 1000 people you are seeing an average of $45 spent.

To consider not adding on, I'd have to have 25k+. I'm sure there is a mathematical formula for this.

Now, lets talk about actual play strategy? Because this is COMPLETELY different than a regular tournament. =)

Nick

[TxDozerMan]

I think the play strategy depends totally on the dynamics of the table. I LOVE the gamboool it up tables. Either you build a stack, or juice your table for after the break, when everything changes, but most don't know it.

The tables I have trouble with are the ones where everyone is so tight you couldn't drive a needle up their rears. These tables are easy to steal from, but the blinds are meaningless. What are your ideas for these tables? I have been experimenting with seeing flops with tighties even for sizeable raises with trash to try to stack them.

I am very new to this format and would love to read any past threads on the subject, and hear anything you have to say about them.

[radii]

The max number of buyins is really a hard thing to ask, because that's going to depend on the number of times you go broke and have to rebuy. If you are asking how loose you should play, that's a whole different topic. I dont think that $70 on rebuys is too much. It is more than the average though.

That's pretty much where I was going with my question. I'm more than willing to go broke and rebuy to build my stack early on. The first two levels I love my suited aces and suited connectors(and playing these a lot early on, almost guarentee action if I get aces or kings early on). I always rebuy immediately(I assume this is the right thing to do without question?) and its pretty easy to pick out the guys willing to take a ton of chances and the guys who will rebuy 10-15 times, who will call all-ins with serious subpar hands, etc, and to take shots at them when the right situation arises... but once I've done this a couple of times and didn't get lucky, I always wonder if I should close it up and try again later or keep pushing. Spending $50 is never an issue and I've spent $70 before at tables that had lots of good opportunities in that first hour, but I've never spent any more than that. Its more of a comfort level thing as opposed to anything else though, hence the question on EV based on how much you spend in the first hour.


Now, lets talk about actual play strategy? Because this is COMPLETELY different than a regular tournament. =)

I'm all for this kind of a discussion too. But I have a question first... to me, the first hour is a completely different tournament. After that it's a deep stack event that pays a good amount of places but you definitely need to be shooting for final tables(like any MTT I suppose) to really make it worth the effort. Is that what you mean here or do you have a view on the rest of the tourney after that first hour as different than a normal tourney as well?

For play strategy... in that first hour, do you have a specific chip count you are shooting for? If I rebuy once and double up once and then add-on, I have 8K chips, that makes me a solidly deep stack for the next hour if I can make some gains. I'm still willing to put my chips at risk if that double up happens very early, but, if it happens in the last half hour of the rebuy period I'm not going to take as many chances anymore. I see some players who won't slow down at all until they're over 12-15K in chips. There are always a small number of players who have over 20-25K at the break but without quadrupling up with aces it seems like you 'd have to play extrodinarily recklessly to have a shot to be at that level after the rebuy period...

It seems like at a general, high level, all you have to do in that first hour is pay attention, play straight up ABC poker post-flop for the most part(dear lord don't bluff, etc). find the players who are willing to rebuy an unlimited number of times and find what their raising and calling standards are(there is almost always one player at my table I'm willing to put all in with top pair at any time on the flop in the first hour while I'm trying to build up my stack, for example). Be more careful around those that are playign tight themselves...

If it hasn't been done, or done recently, i'd love to see a good discussion on strategy in this specific rebuy tourney come out of this.

[Chief911]

My normal rebuy period play:

I want to have 9k+ before the add on's. Always rebuy immediately. Personally, I almost always go allin the first hand. If I'm not called, I'll show the random hand that I have. Then I'll wait until I have a decent hand and do it again. Nice how often that doubles you up.

For the first half hour (Regardless of stack size) I'll limp almost every pot except when I have a monster, and may even limp then if there are people going allin after me often. I'll call good sized raises with suited connectors, one gappers, and two gappers, any pocket pair, any suited ace, any two paint.

The difference between whether I have 3k, and 10k, is that with 10k, I'll still limp alot pre, and call raises with those hands, but I dont have to press semi-made hands, whereas with 3k, I'm gamboooling it up. I did have a fairly embarrassing quad up a few nights ago when I took my 27o allin preflop vs. AA, TT, JJ. Flop was ATJ. Turn 9, river 8. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] They were bitter that I didnt go allin after that.

After the rebuy period, its a whole different ball of wax. But again I'm going to play deep stack poker. I wont limp anymore (Unless there are lots of multi-way limped pots), but I'll raise and call raises (Especially with position) with hands that have good implied odds (Mostly same as listed above). Then you hit, and you can many times wreck someone with a big pocket pair, or an AK that connects and can't understand why you wont fold. That's where people who dont understand big stack poker will hand you their entire stack of 15k chips with blinds of 75/150 because they cannot believe their AA could get cracked on the turn.

More later. Work Calling. Whoops.

Nick