two bleh hands from my day.

[oreogod]

I was having a good time, comfortable in my 4 handed game than out of nowhere the table fills. Im no longer used to full games, Im so used to short handed tables, and apparently in big multiway pots, I have no respecty for postflop actions and the number of ppl in with me. Anyway, educate me. I feel kind of bleh about htese hands.

So on to the two hands of my day that were bleh. No reads really. Id assume bad players, and they were...maybe not terrible, but not good. Both of these hands happneed back to back.

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Whats your action here...turn/river.


PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, UTG calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB


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I must be in love w/ raising rainbow boards in big multiway pots.


PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $5. MP3 posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (9 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(9 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls $5 (All-In), <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players, 1 all-in)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players, 1 all-in)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

[Lost Wages]

Hand 1)
Raise preflop; buy the button, fold the blinds mabye the poster, equity edge, yada-yada. Post flop is reasonable.

Hand 2)
Yea, OK, there are two posters but you're still in MP1 and that cheese belongs in the muck. On the flop, your hand is worth a call so I like the raise. On the turn, you have a possibly best hand that's very fragile and the pot is big so you should bet. If you are checkraised you can fold since it means you're drawing dead to a straight, set or J9/98.

Lost Wages

[Azhrarn]

1. Perfect. I love every street. You could fold the turn against some kinds of bad players, but you're giving up too much to fold without the right read. Since you can't fold, a raise is very good. On the river, you're very rarely going to get a better hand to fold, so the only question is whether or not the villain is bad and loose enough for you to value bet. So I like a check without a more specific read.

2. Preflop, I'd chuck. And I have a fondness for medium suited connectors. But your position sucks too much for this hand. The flop is a tough, marginal situation with a bettor and two callers in front of you and five opponents behind you. I'd say this one of those cases where you should just fold top pair on the flop, but you do have those backdoor draws as well. So that leans me toward calling or raising. If you raise, I think you need to bet a lot of the turns, including the one that came off. If I just called, I would think about folding a lot of the turns where I didn't improve.

Hand 1. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img][img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hand 2. I don't like the flop raise unless you follow up with a bet on the turn.

[UVaHoo]

In hand 1, why do people like a turn raise so much more than a flop raise? Are the players in the hand capable of folding a jack on the turn to your raise?

[Azhrarn]

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 1, why do people like a turn raise so much more than a flop raise? Are the players in the hand capable of folding a jack on the turn to your raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say it's because you're in a precarious position on the flop. You'll be folding on the turn a lot of the time. There's a bettor and two callers in front of you, and a fair amount of turn cards you don't want to see. By not raising, you keep the action in front of you, and you get free info on the turn.

In this case, a brick came on the turn, and the two callers in the middle dropped out, which made a slam-dunk scenario for a turn raise. If the turn had gone bet-call-call, that would be a stronger sign that you are currently behind.

[Klompy]

Not sure I understand the turn raise on hand 1, i think I typicaly fold the turn, but aparently everyone agrees with it so what am I missing?

[McGahee]

Does 5/10 Stars full pwn that much or are you just a table selection whore?

[Azhrarn]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I understand the turn raise on hand 1, i think I typicaly fold the turn, but aparently everyone agrees with it so what am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is putting in two more BB into a 7.5 BB pot on the turn. That's almost 4-1. Putting aside potentially complicating factors, if we're ahead just 25% of the time we're going to show a profit. You're giving a random crappy player too much credit if you think he needs a jack or better to bet the flop and turn like this. We may be behind the majority of the time, but that's not what we need for this to be the right move.

In hand 1 I am a bit confused... Can anyone explain to me why just a call on the flop would be better than a raise?

And then I guess the raise on the turn is right because of only the call on the flop?

What if you raised the flop and then UTG bets the turn?