KK pf laydown debate, part LXXIV

PinkSteel · #1 06-01-2005, 10:04 AM

Just for you, FreakDaddy.... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Results later.

Reads: minimal, only a couple orbits w/ Button, nothing way out of line.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converter

Hero ($22.65)
Button ($27.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, Button raises to $1.75, 2 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $6, Button raises to $25.40 (All-In), Hero...?

That's a 3-bet all-in from Button. Play or fold?

PinkSteel · #2 06-01-2005, 02:37 PM

Sheesh, no one cares about Kings any more. Results anyway....

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converter

Hero ($22.65)
Button ($27.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, Button raises to $1.75, 2 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $6, Button raises to $25.40 (All-In), Hero....

I guess I thought that since we were now heads-up, Button might pull this with a wider range of hands than if it were still multiway. If UTG+2 were still in when Button pushed, I really might have figured him for the Aces and folded.

Hero calls $16.65 (All-In).

Flop: ($50.40) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)
Turn: ($50.40) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($50.40) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)
Final Pot: $50.40

Results:
Hero has Ks Kc (two pair, aces and kings).
Button has Jh Jd (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $45.55.

swolfe · #3 06-01-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That's a 3-bet all-in from Button. Play or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, that was a 4-bet all-in. an easy fold with KK from a solid player. easy call from a donk.

considering it's going to be heads up, you should have called his reraise and played some poker post-flop.

Guruman · #4 06-01-2005, 02:43 PM

I like playing KK against an all-in preflop because of the strong percentage of the time you'll see AK or an underpair. People loooove to race with medium and low pocket pairs against AK, and both situations play in your favor. You'll run into aces probably ~%25 to %30 of the time here, and you won't lose every time you go up against them. That leaves well over %70 of the hands you'll see as ones that you dominate. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

queball · #5 06-01-2005, 02:45 PM

Have folded K's 3x PF in my life....remember them all and was right on all 3 occassions!!..its tough to do, but when the circumstances are right you need to!!....with a donk its an easy call!! against a better player they can be folded, but based on your limited info, its a definite call...although the A's had to worry you!! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

PinkSteel · #6 06-01-2005, 02:52 PM

Damn, I knew someone would notice....

I considered flat calling, but went with the push for two reasons, not necessarily in this order:

* I am OOP
* I am a donk and my postflop play skills are only so-so at this point.

I thought there was a better chance, especially being OOP, that I would fold a better hand, than I could get a better hand to fold to me. So I went with the "let's see all the cards" option. Make any sense?

DoubleDown · #7 06-01-2005, 02:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]

* I am OOP
* I am a donk and my postflop play skills are only so-so at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 greats reasons to fold preflop & move along

Matt R. · #8 06-01-2005, 03:26 PM

Fold the 2nd best possible hand preflop because you can't play postflop and you're OOP? Actually, it sounds like a great way to lose money to me.

wtfsvi · #9 06-01-2005, 03:29 PM

You need reads to fold KK preflop at NL25. If you don't have them, you have to call. I disagree with the others at one point though. I think it's fine to throw in the third raise in this situation.

wegs the wegs · #10 06-01-2005, 04:09 PM

Never fold KK preflop on the Party 25NL. Yes you will be wrong once in awhile but its a very very high EV calling all-ins preflop with KK. You will run into J5o more than you will with pocket aces. Don't fold with kings.