How do the experts play this?

Buz · #1 06-14-2005, 10:29 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter
This is only the 11th hand of the tournament and there has not been much pre-flop raising, several pots contested multi-way with limpers or small raises.

SB (t975)
Hero (t810)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t595)
UTG+2 (t1230)
MP1 (t975)
MP2 (t545)
MP3 (t3590)
CO (t3107)
Button (t960)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, MP3 calls t15, CO calls t15, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to t30, MP2 calls t15, MP3 raises to t45, CO calls t30, SB folds, Hero calls t15, MP2 calls t15.

Flop: (t192.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets t200, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t200, CO calls t200.

Turn: (t792.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t565 ALL-IN , MP3 folds, CO calls t565.

River: (t1922.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t1922.50

I wanted to bet enough on the turn to make it wrong to call with a draw. Of course, he made the flush on the river and I busted out. Did I play it right or do the experts play differently early in a tournament?

DireWolf · #2 06-14-2005, 10:34 AM

uh, what were u doing preflop?

after u get two calls on the flop, im done with the hand. But i wouldn't bet that much on the flop either, but i would have checked preflop, led out half pot on flop, and checked turn.

TexInAtl · #3 06-14-2005, 10:46 AM

Raising from the BB with such a mediocre hand as K9s is very, very BAD. You are way out of position, and you have the opportunity to close the action pre-flop. Why raise and give an opponent, who may be trying to LRR, the opportunity to do so.

Once the flop hits you, you have top pair with a mediocre kicker. Personally, I don't like to play this type of hand out of position for fear of being dominated. Look at the range of hands that have you beat that could possibly limp before the flop: 33, 77, K7, K10, KJ, KQ, AK.

Bottomline is that at no point would I be willing to risk any significant portion of my chips, much less my entire tournament, on this hand out of position. I would check PF, lead at the flop, but after that I'd pretty much be done with the hand.

Thanks

beetyjoose · #4 06-14-2005, 10:48 AM

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uh, what were u doing preflop?

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ditto

mlagoo · #5 06-14-2005, 11:03 AM

Hate the minraise from the BB. What are you trying to accomplish? Building the pot with your K/bad kicker?

I also don't like the pot sized bet on the flop... with your kicker, you need to be betting out like 2/3 pot, tops, to see if you are raised, and if you are, you should get out of the pot.

On the turn, I don't like the push, because you don't really know where you are (outkicked?), and it's really too early to commit all your chips with one pair with a bad kicker.

I don't really like any street, at all.

Buz · #6 06-14-2005, 11:34 AM

Thanks for the replies.

Next time - I close the action with a speculative hand.

Do you run the risk of being run over by an aggressive player when you play as tight as is suggested? Is the strategy generally to allow yourself to be run over, but then trap the aggressor later on when you make a big hand?

Your point is really good that there were a lot of "limping" hands that beat my top pair. Still, I was surprised that I got a call on the turn from a player on a draw. Turns out he had 14 outs to beat top pair: a pair and a flush draw, a little better than 2:1 and losing doesn't cost him the tournament. I shouldn't have been surprised.

If I keep the pot small pre-flop and after the flop, I can make it wrong to call with a draw and still have chips left if he plays back and I have to surrender -- or am I just setting myself up to be trapped?

DireWolf · #7 06-14-2005, 11:41 AM

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Thanks for the replies.

Next time - I close the action with a speculative hand.

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Not really a speculative hand. More like a crap hand.

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Do you run the risk of being run over by an aggressive player when you play as tight as is suggested? Is the strategy generally to allow yourself to be run over, but then trap the aggressor later on when you make a big hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference between being Tight and being Passive. You should really pick up some 2+2 books.

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Your point is really good that there were a lot of "limping" hands that beat my top pair. Still, I was surprised that I got a call on the turn from a player on a draw. Turns out he had 14 outs to beat top pair: a pair and a flush draw, a little better than 2:1 and losing doesn't cost him the tournament. I shouldn't have been surprised.

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He was a favorite on the flop. Many fish will call with just a flush draw no matter what the "odds".

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If I keep the pot small pre-flop and after the flop, I can make it wrong to call with a draw and still have chips left if he plays back and I have to surrender -- or am I just setting myself up to be trapped?

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With K9 in the BB you want to keep this pot as small as possible.

TexInAtl · #8 06-14-2005, 11:44 AM

It's not about running over or allowing yourself to be run over. I know it's been said time and time again. Tournament poker is about playing position and situations.

In this particular hand, you are in a bad position in a bad situation, and (being ironical for a moment) you made the best out of it. You gave not some, but ALL of your chips to another player probably directly related to your fear of being "run over" by other players. I struggle with this same problem, but rather than using your emotions to control your play, separate yourself from your emotions and look at the cards, your postion, and the situation that you're in. Hope this helps.

Thanks

Jax_Grinder · #9 06-14-2005, 11:51 AM

Haven't read the other posts (yet), but I would suggest that the "experts" don't play K9s for a minraise from the BB with 3 limpers and the SB in front.

I am also fairly certain the "experts" don't open the action with a 200 bet into a 135 pot on this flop (esp. given the size of the stacks involved in the hand relative to yours). Also, not sure why the flush draw was your only concern here with crappy kicker like a 9 and no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] outs.

You played this poorly, but not because you got beat by a flush draw.

JC_Saves · #10 06-28-2005, 10:31 AM

well, raising this hand in the BB after several limpers I think is a poor play. You are building a pot that will give someone the idea of staying in later when they would have gotten out.

K9s from early position is very marginal hand to be raising with after several limpers.

Your flop bet might have been a little big and then the turn play I think is horrible given you had two callers on the flop.